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Topic Closedconquest of attila the hun

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: conquest of attila the hun
    Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 17:44

"just curiosity, do the magars accept Atilla as they ancestor?"

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Everyone in my family is named Attila and i will name my son Attila too one day!!!!

The land that my horse has rode there shall be not a grass again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

____________________________________

 

To the other magyar on here, whether you like to believe it or not, Magyars are mixed in with HUNS!!!! It will take many many MANYYYY  more generations to loose those genes!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 18:14
I do not know how much credit I should give this, but I once heard a story that the Huns and Magyars left the steppes together but were seperated. The Huns reached Europe first, and the Magyars wandered for centuries before being able to enter Europe. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 18:21
The origin of the MAGYARS

theme -----------Finno-Ugric------Central-Asia / Carpathian Basin-----
own ancient -----------------------------------X (Codexes, historial notes)
Language-------------X--------------------------- (ONLY A hypothese, NOT PROVEN)
Genetic-------------------------------------------X (haven't data for HUNS/SCYTH./AVARS
Relation in history of
Asiatic peoples---------------------------------X
Folk------------------------------------------------X (HUN, scythian,avar type)
Structure of society---------------------------X (hun, scythian,avar type: twice)
Writing--------------------------------------------X (runes, equivalent with HUNS)
Origin Faith -------------------------------------X (hun, scythian,avar type)
Fightstyle-----------------------------------------X (hun, scythian,avar type)
Ornament-----------------------------------------X (hun, scythian,avar type)
Archeology ---------------------------------------X (hun,scythian,avar type)
Costume------------------------------------------X (hun,scythian,avar type)
Music----------------------------------------------X ( : Central+South Asia,.
popular-song-------------------------------------X (pentaton (la) Central+South Asia)
folk-tale/ballads---------------------------------X (Central-+ South Asia.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 03:27

"Language-------------X--------------------------- (ONLY A hypothese, NOT PROVEN) "

It is proven.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 07:47

Originally posted by minchickie

The origin of the MAGYARS

theme -----------Finno-Ugric------Central-Asia / Carpathian Basin-----
own ancient -----------------------------------X (Codexes, historial notes)
Language-------------X--------------------------- (ONLY A hypothese, NOT PROVEN)
Genetic-------------------------------------------X (haven't data for HUNS/SCYTH./AVARS
Relation in history of
Asiatic peoples---------------------------------X
Folk------------------------------------------------X (HUN, scythian,avar type)
Structure of society---------------------------X (hun, scythian,avar type: twice)
Writing--------------------------------------------X (runes, equivalent with HUNS)
Origin Faith -------------------------------------X (hun, scythian,avar type)
Fightstyle-----------------------------------------X (hun, scythian,avar type)
Ornament-----------------------------------------X (hun, scythian,avar type)
Archeology ---------------------------------------X (hun,scythian,avar type)
Costume------------------------------------------X (hun,scythian,avar type)
Music----------------------------------------------X ( : Central+South Asia,.
popular-song-------------------------------------X (pentaton (la) Central+South Asia)
folk-tale/ballads---------------------------------X (Central-+ South Asia.)

I know you may right, but persians out here claim that Scythians where persian people how reard it sounds (their capital city whas in altaic mountans). What you or Raider gonna say about that?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 07:59

 

Kenaney:

As much as I know the scythian were of iraninan origin. I think Minchickie spoke  about their culture.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 08:24
ah, thanks
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 08:36
Iranians dont claim Scythians were Persians. They claim all Scythians were Iranians. They're partly right, Scythians of Caspian-Black Sea steppes were Iranians. But we say that the Saka, Saka of Central Asia (from Maverannahr to Mongolia) were a mix of Turkic and Iranic people, with Turkish rulers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 09:05
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Iranians dont claim Scythians were Persians. They claim all Scythians were Iranians. They're partly right, Scythians of Caspian-Black Sea steppes were Iranians. But we say that the Saka, Saka of Central Asia (from Maverannahr to Mongolia) were a mix of Turkic and Iranic people, with Turkish rulers.


Fair enough; at least you are saying the eastern Saka were a mix of both peoples, not strictly one or the other.  Also, I would not be so quick to make a hard and fast seperation between Scythians of the Black Sea/Caspian area and the C. Asian Saka.  In reality, they were one large mass of nomads, often traversing the great caravan route between east and west.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 00:17

Originally posted by the Bulgarian

I do know that Bulgarians and Hungarians have some sort of a relationship between them. I red it in a site, but can't remember it. Does anyone have any info about this?

 

 

The Hunogur/Bulgars were displaced from the Caucasus by the Sabirs and other Hun tribes, and migrated northwards to the steppes of Southern Russia, though some of them settled in Armenia. Their heritage in the Caucasus is represented today by some peoples in Daghestan and mainly by the Karachay and Balkar, both of them associated with Circassian tribes in autonomous politic entities [Kabardino-Balkarskaya and Karachayevo-Cherkesskaya]. The relics of Hun burials and typical Hun monuments have been found in the territory of both these republics. These peoples are the rich mixture of different Hun/Hunogur/Bulgar tribes, with the contribution of Khazars. Indeed, one of the Khazar tribes called "Basi" or "Bas" is reflected in the name of a legendary Balkarian hero, Basiat, and in the way Georgians call Balkarians, Basiani. According to many scholars, Khazars and Bulgars were almost the same people and spoke one language.
Their settlement in the area of the Volga river is however connected to Attila the Hun. In his time, the Huns intermarried with the peoples of the steppes, including the Sarmatians, acquiring new cultural features. According to tradition, he divided his hordes among his sons, giving to Ellak the Sabir peoples, to Dengizik the Kutriguri, and to Irnak the Utiguri. Concerning the latter tribes, Procopius said that one of the Hun kings had two sons, Utihur and Kuturhur. After the death of their father, the tribes subject to them consolidated into two separate tribes, which became the two branches of ancient Bulgarians. These two peoples were often at war against each other, what caused their weakening and subsequent displacement westwards after the Avars overran their lands. A large number of them were carried by the Avars to the Danubian plains.
One century later, Bulgars achieved in re-organizing their kingdom in the Northern Caucasus area, but the rising power of the Khazars subdued them. Then, the Bulgars split into three groups: a large number remained within the Khazar Empire; a second group re-settled by the Volga river beyond the northern boundary of Khazaria and founded Bulgar; the third branch, led by Asparukh, migrated westwards and established their kingdom in Moldavia. The Volga Bulgarians became powerful after the collapse of Khazaria, and their capital, Bulgar, was the main commercial centre between the Baltic and the Caspian Seas. The Bulgars of Moldavia crossed the Danube, where they met remnants of Attila's Huns, and defeated the Byzantines, establishing the nation that is called Bulgaria until today.
Since then, these three branches followed separate ways: The Kuban Bulgarians, identified better as Hunogurs, became with Magyars and Khazars the people known today as Hungarians. The Volga Bulgarians slowly assimilated with other Uralic peoples into the present-day Bashkirs, Tatars and Chuvash. The Balkan Bulgarians were completely Slavicized in a relatively short time; their old language was replaced by the modern Slavonic Bulgarian by the tenth century c.e., and are now considered a Slavic people.



this is the source, its very interesting:
http: // www .imninalu.net/Huns.htm


 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 04:05

About relationship beetwen Bulgarians and Hungarians:

The ancestor of dinasty Dulo was Attila called Avitohol. The ancestor of dinasty rpd was also Attila.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 07:07
Originally posted by Raider

"Language-------------X--------------------------- (ONLY A hypothese, NOT PROVEN) "

It is proven.

 

No its not! Its quite arguable! Read this: http://member.melbpc.org.au/~tmajlath/index1.html

 

Read it all because it does explain the situation well!

Language relativety does not mean any genetic relation. Why do most Hungarians pretend to be some kind of fake Arian nation? We are from Asia!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 03:26
Originally posted by minchickie

Originally posted by Raider

"Language-------------X--------------------------- (ONLY A hypothese, NOT PROVEN) "

It is proven.

 

No its not! Its quite arguable! Read this: http://member.melbpc.org.au/~tmajlath/index1.html

 

Read it all because it does explain the situation well!

Language relativety does not mean any genetic relation. Why do most Hungarians pretend to be some kind of fake Arian nation? We are from Asia!

I have read that article. I did not find any reason why I should question a well known linguistic fact proved more than a hundred years ago.

It is not known that the original homeland of the Hungarians was either the western or the eastern side of the Ural. (It depends whom you ask.)Personally I don't think that it has any relevance.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2005 at 01:20

The theory, that Hungarian is a Finno-Ugric language was made in the 19th century when the Habsburgs ruled the country, and the Hungarian people was 'awaking'. They wanted to have an independent country(1848-49), they wanted to know the history of the nation. So, the Habsburgs hired some 'linguists' just to make the people quiet by teaching them and telling them: 'here you are, they are your natives, this is the history of your language'. They didn't wanted to tell them the truth, they just wanted to tell them something. And this theory is teached in every schools in Hungary. Some linguists who found other evideces didn't get money from the gov. or from official organisations, because Hungary was not an independent country( 20th century-soviets). There was scientist who made researches and who wrote books, but they couldn't get enough publicity, because thr official point was 'that a little country could not have big history'. And the Academy doesn't want to even take up this question, because the people there who work with the Finno-Ugoric thing don"t want to lose the job, and there are a lot of people who remained there from the communist times.
Before this theory was made, many Hungarian authors and poets marked themselves as the succession of the Huns, and nobody thougt, we're finno-ugorics. Thats interesting.

This theory also played a major part when Hungarians were being looked down upon by basically every surrounding country as "Asian steppe people associated with the Turks and Mongols as being leftover barbaric people" so we took advantage of this bland theory to say the Finns are our brothers hence we had been native to Europe and the north connected by the Finns.

I realize that Finns have some similarities in the Hungarian language (even though we dont understand each other at all) but Magyars have a closer cultural and genetic connection with the steppe people even today. I feel more comfortable with it being an overall Ural-Altaic theory than split in two with just Finno-Ugriac and Altaic as separate groups.

 

 

 

Anthropology and Genetics


Anthropology can point to the Hungarian homeland through physiological research. The old country of Hungarians must be sought where people lived, or still live who are physically like Hungarians. The Uyghur cemetery at Astana near the Jungar Gate provides the answer to this, revealed by Aurel Stein between 1913 and 1915, with 1200 more graves discovered by the Uyghurs and Chinese in 1986. The people buried there were physically the same as the Hungarians who settled in the Carpathian Basin. Also demonstrative is the fact that typically Turanian, Pamirian and Taurid genetic elements, that entered the Carpathian Basin with the Hungarians, are common only among the Turkic peoples of Central Asia, but occur nowhere else in Europe.

Aside from physiology, recent genetic research has provided clues about national origins and kinships. Within the Landsteiner Blood group system, the rate of the typically Hungarian "0" and "B" blood types (31.05% and 17.90%) is off from that of Indo-European and Finno-Ugric nations, but is within the range found among Central Asian Turkic nations. Besides this, there is another blood type among Hungarians, the Diego [A+], present in no other people of Europe. The "Mongolian spot", almost unknown in Europe, has 22.6% occurrence, and Lactose intolerance (missing lactose digestive enzyme), rare elsewhere, is at 37% among Hungarians, as in Central Asia. The skin splinter system of Hungarians has Central Asian characteristic (low bend rates, but high vortexes). The Gm-marker research pointed out that the Gm abst and Gm afb3 gene markers occurring among Hungarians are missing among other European populations. International Mitochondrial DNA research has also recently identified additional Central Asian characteristics among Hungarians.

Now that i believe that since all the men in my family have Asiatic features, dark hair, wider cheekbones, somewhat slanted in the eyes.

I have seen this with many Hungarians in my lifetime.
It all depends on today with who mixes with whom regionally.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2005 at 02:52
Originally posted by minchickie

The theory, that Hungarian is a Finno-Ugric language was made in the 19th century when the Habsburgs ruled the country, and the Hungarian people was 'awaking'. They wanted to have an independent country(1848-49), they wanted to know the history of the nation. So, the Habsburgs hired some 'linguists' just to make the people quiet by teaching them and telling them: 'here you are, they are your natives, this is the history of your language'. They didn't wanted to tell them the truth, they just wanted to tell them something. And this theory is teached in every schools in Hungary. Some linguists who found other evideces didn't get money from the gov. or from official organisations, because Hungary was not an independent country( 20th century-soviets). There was scientist who made researches and who wrote books, but they couldn't get enough publicity, because thr official point was 'that a little country could not have big history'. And the Academy doesn't want to even take up this question, because the people there who work with the Finno-Ugoric thing don"t want to lose the job, and there are a lot of people who remained there from the communist times.
Before this theory was made, many Hungarian authors and poets marked themselves as the succession of the Huns, and nobody thougt, we're finno-ugorics. Thats interesting.

This theory also played a major part when Hungarians were being looked down upon by basically every surrounding country as "Asian steppe people associated with the Turks and Mongols as being leftover barbaric people" so we took advantage of this bland theory to say the Finns are our brothers hence we had been native to Europe and the north connected by the Finns.

I have heard this conspiration theory before.

Before 1918 the Habsburg dinasty was the evil enemy who faked the Hungarian history, between 1920-1945 the jews faked Hungarian history, after 1945 the soviet communists faked Hungarian history. You can't be serious to beleive this thing.  There is no mean scholar who questions the finno-ugric origin of the Hungarian language.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 21:51

But I believe! Every country had it in mind that Magyars are not European and they were right except we deserved our right to stay but noone else agreed with that and so we had many things to deny and portray. Stands to reason. But I think today we have nothing to feel guilty about and we should be proud of who we are,,, Hunnic, Asian Finn, Turk, Mongol, whatever people want to call us. We are Magyar and thats it! No need to claim our "brothers" to be European!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 02:33
Originally posted by minchickie

But I believe! Every country had it in mind that Magyars are not European and they were right except we deserved our right to stay but noone else agreed with that and so we had many things to deny and portray. Stands to reason. But I think today we have nothing to feel guilty about and we should be proud of who we are,,, Hunnic, Asian Finn, Turk, Mongol, whatever people want to call us. We are Magyar and thats it! No need to claim our "brothers" to be European!

I do not see the connection between your post and the question of the origin of the Hungarian language.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 12:10

minchickie:

What is European? What is Asian? 

Remember, for cronichel writers River Don was the natural border of Europe...

And Indo-Europeans came from Asia into Europe, too.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2005 at 19:54
The land that my horse has rode on, there shall not be a grass againAtilla the Hun
p2.forumforfree.com/turan.html
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2005 at 19:57
Empire didnt exactly last long after his death though.
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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