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Worst mistake in the islamic history?

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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Worst mistake in the islamic history?
    Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 09:37
What do you think?a  mistake that had not been made,the fate of islamic societies could have been much different in many ways.
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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Jagatai Khan View Drop Down
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 14:15

The battle of Ankara 1402.

The Muslim Tamerlane's Army and Muslim Ottomans fought for nothing.

If this battle wouldnt have happened,Ottomans would have captured Constantinople almost 50 years earlier and Tamerlane would have invaded China.

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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2005 at 08:08
Simply the best.
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...the rest are details."

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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2005 at 12:21
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

The battle of Ankara 1402.

The Muslim Tamerlane's Army and Muslim Ottomans fought for nothing.

If this battle wouldnt have happened,Ottomans would have captured Constantinople almost 50 years earlier and Tamerlane would have invaded China.

Jagatai, no need to add words... Its the simplest answer.

This is the worst mistake in all our Turkish History also...

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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2005 at 15:11
ruled of Muaawia  bin bi sufian the father of all muslim terrorits he was one of the badest thing in islam
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2005 at 18:24

 

well that wouldn't hve happened if alkhawarj ( the first shias) who came from egypt assasinated Caliph Uthman.

 

 

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2005 at 23:09

The worst mistake of Islam?

To rely on the incorporation of church and state, and to not secularize before the west.

"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 12:49

azimuth they are not first shia and khwarij if you know khwarij appered after seffin and what is your problem with shia

dont forget uthman put a men from his family  in ranks they did not deseve it he was not a leader he was  ring in his family hand like Marwan bin alhakam ,ibn abi sarh,almughera bin shubaa he desroyed islam by his hand and made struglles inside our great religion

dont make me laugh by your post above firs shia it is fake 

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 12:52
if you consider he ruled after uthman death you are wrong he became a fake caliph after ALI BIN ABI TALIB (pbuh) death
"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 18:15

The betrayel of Arabs against Ottoman Empire.

 

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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 18:42
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

The betrayel of Arabs against Ottoman Empire.

 



I second that
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2005 at 08:29

I thought again and I saw that the biggest fault of Muslims were not to realize the technological and wealthy developments in Europe after Renaissance and New World Discoveries.

The second one should be the Battle of Ankara.

The betrayel of Arabs in WWI was a great shame for them,but Ottomans would surely have been defeated in WWI even with the support of Arabs

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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 01:43
The increasingly theocratic evolution of much of Islamic society as it progressed into the late middle ages. As ultra-conservatives who were promoted purely on the basis of their enormous Koranic memory took power they often repressed many secular areas of life. The once vibrant intellectual world of Islam saw itself repressed by its own elite officials, while the West underwent an intellectual transformation.
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 23:22

Worst enemy of Muslims are Themselves

Their biggest mistakes were their own fault.

Ofcourse all Muslims are tought that if a Muslim and a Muslim are out to kill one another, both will go to hell.  (Because even the one who survived would have surely killed the other if he had the chance).

Theres a collective problem throughout the Islamic world.

Eastern Europeans (Muslim or otherwise) have a problem with Turks, Arabs have a problem with Turks,  Turks have a problem with Persians, Persians have a problem with Afghans, Afghans have a problem with Pakistanis, Pakistanis have problems with Indians.  Same goes in the CAR's, Uzbekistan hates Tajikistan, Tajikistan hates Qyrghizstan, etc.  All these nations have had problems with each other, and within their own societies.  Muslims have killed Muslims for as long as their has been Islam because the societies have been corrupted by greed, power, and ignorance.

From the time the imperialist nations knew there was a divide they could manipulate, they took full advantage of it.  Lots of despotic rulers in the Middle East are there today because of indirect or direct intervention by foreign powers.  Its the Muslim country's own fault, they put their own personal interests ahead of their own constituents.  Their hatred consumed them and thats what we have today.  An Islamic world that isn't based on Islam, but ethnocentrism, despotism, nepotism, and corruption.

The Islamic World (or lack there of) is ripe for the picking.

 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 05:24
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

azimuth they are not first shia and khwarij if you know khwarij appered after seffin and what is your problem with shia

dont forget uthman put a men from his family  in ranks they did not deseve it he was not a leader he was  ring in his family hand like Marwan bin alhakam ,ibn abi sarh,almughera bin shubaa he desroyed islam by his hand and made struglles inside our great religion

dont make me laugh by your post above firs shia it is fake 

well then what do you call the people who came from egypt and assisnated the Caliph?

and he did put some of his relatives in high positions and he can do that coz he is the Caliph.

also that does not justify his assisnation does it?

Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

if you consider he ruled after uthman death you are wrong he became a fake caliph after ALI BIN ABI TALIB (pbuh) death

i didnt say that, he was governer of Syria and didnt accep Ali Bin AbiTalb and then made himself Caliph.

also it really depend on what you mean by fak caliph, you may mean that he is not suppose to be caliph,  but the fact that he was and he is known as the founder of the Umayyad Caliphate.

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

The betrayel of Arabs against Ottoman Empire.

oh Oguzoglu

its alway about Turkey and the Worst mistak in Islamic History would be off course about Arabs "Betrayel" and Ottoman fight with Timur.

it was more like independence than Betrayel since Ottoman at that stage didnt act like muslims and treated people like humans.

so if you love to talk about this alot you and some others of the Turkish forumer , do it somewhere else not in a subject talking about Islamic mistakes, it is better to be in Turkish mistakes since it had nothing to do with islam.

Originally posted by Constantine XI

The increasingly theocratic evolution of much of Islamic society as it progressed into the late middle ages. As ultra-conservatives who were promoted purely on the basis of their enormous Koranic memory took power they often repressed many secular areas of life. The once vibrant intellectual world of Islam saw itself repressed by its own elite officials, while the West underwent an intellectual transformation.

if you dont mind

give us some examples

 

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 09:44
Worst mistake in Islamic history is ignorance. We could blame the past like a bunch of sissy's or realize that ignorance continues to this day. Enlightenment comes from stable relationships, economy and the ability to educate oneself.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 10:45

so if you love to talk about this alot you and some others of the Turkish forumer , do it somewhere else not in a subject talking about Islamic mistakes, it is better to be in Turkish mistakes since it had nothing to do with islam.

Sorry Azimuth, I did a mistake. I should have said the betrayel of some Arabs, not all (so no national generalizations) against Ottoman authority. That mistake had nothing to do with Islam, I second that, but it was a mistake in Islamic world, so I have choosen that one. It is for northern and western Arabs, not the whole Arab nation.

I dont like repeating the same things too. But the question of the topic is about that, what could I do? I think you understand my concerns.

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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 12:55

OK Azimuth but in your opinion you said he was a caliph and this his right but that is false he must choose the best for people islam said that if you dont mind brother.

About the fake caliph i want to know your opinion about him nd what is his idea when he fought his imam and the prince of the faithfulls.

notice yes i belive  he   he is not suppose to be caliph i guess you share me in the last idea.

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 19:42
Originally posted by azimuth

Originally posted by Constantine XI

The increasingly theocratic evolution of much of Islamic society as it progressed into the late middle ages. As ultra-conservatives who were promoted purely on the basis of their enormous Koranic memory took power they often repressed many secular areas of life. The once vibrant intellectual world of Islam saw itself repressed by its own elite officials, while the West underwent an intellectual transformation.

if you dont mind

give us some examples

 

Certainly sir, I have a good academic article at home I found very interesting on this topic. Shall post its theory when I am back at my place.

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 22:33
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

OK Azimuth but in your opinion you said he was a caliph and this his right but that is false he must choose the best for people islam said that if you dont mind brother.

About the fake caliph i want to know your opinion about him nd what is his idea when he fought his imam and the prince of the faithfulls.

notice yes i belive  he   he is not suppose to be caliph i guess you share me in the last idea.

well he "Muawyah" became Caliph and that is Fact wheather you accept it or not. so he was Caliph.

but anyway as far as i know Shiiti has different opinions about this so they have different set of Caliphs who didnt in Fact became Caliphs.

anyway what do i think about Muwayah fighting with Ali, i didnt do much reading about this  but as far as i know Muaweyah didnt want to accepet Ali as a Caliph if Ali didnt give him the people who assasinated Caliph Uthman.

since Muaweyah was a governor of syria he had an Authority over there and didnt join Caliph Ali. which made Caliph Ali as a Caliphate over Arabia and Iraq only i think.

i think it all went wrong and the name Caliph is not really represent what it actully meant at the begining.

 

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