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Topic ClosedTibet, Kurdistan, Western China, Assyria, Chechnia
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Chieftain
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Posts: 1096 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tibet, Kurdistan, Western China, Assyria, Chechnia
    Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 13:22

1. Should any of these regions form there own nation?

2. Will, if any, of these people gain their independance anytime soon?

3. Why, if any, do they deserve to form separate nations?



Edited by strategos
http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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AssyrianMan7 View Drop Down
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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:10

The Kurds shouldn't get their Kurdistan because their orgins are not from the Middle East. If you look at Kurdish history for some reason, it all begin in the late 1800's. The kurds came out of no where, maybe because they have been hiding in their caves for the past 6,000 years or they just migrated from India to Northern Iraq, Southeastern Turkey, Western Iran and North Syria. The funny thing is, if you look at historical records for the area that the kurds claim as Kurdistan, documents say it was Assyria. Maybe the kurds are desenteds of the ancient Assyrians and their name changes from Assyrian to Kurdish or their never really was an Assyrian civilazation, its all a make believe story. For the kurds to say they are just as old as the sumerians is pure bullsh*t, and i know many of the Arabs, Turks and Perisans will agree with me. Because the Kurds are not just claiming the Assyrians history they are also claim the Arabs, Turks and Persians.

 
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Posts: 543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:13
Originally posted by AssyrianMan7

The Kurds shouldn't get their Kurdistan because their orgins are not from the Middle East. If you look at Kurdish history for some reason, it all begin in the late 1800's. The kurds came out of no where, maybe because they have been hiding in their caves for the past 6,000 years or they just migrated from India to Northern Iraq, Southeastern Turkey, Western Iran and North Syria. The funny thing is, if you look at historical records for the area that the kurds claim as Kurdistan, documents say it was Assyria. Maybe the kurds are desenteds of the ancient Assyrians and their name changes from Assyrian to Kurdish or their never really was an Assyrian civilazation, its all a make believe story. For the kurds to say they are just as old as the sumerians is pure bullsh*t, and i know many of the Arabs, Turks and Perisans will agree with me. Because the Kurds are not just claiming the Assyrians history they are also claim the Arabs, Turks and Persians.

 

agreed.
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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:21
I rather have no Assyria then have the Kurds get what they want!!!
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:24

Assyrians are extinct, they don't know this, they also apparently lack knowledge of history.



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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:25
Originally posted by Zagros Purya

Assyrians are extinct, they don't know this,  they also apparently lack any knowledge of history.

can you explain to me how i am extincted??? How can a nation so big at its time get extincted



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Zagros View Drop Down
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:26
Can you explain how Kurds first appeared from caves in 1800s?
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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:27
Well if you look at Kurdish history it all starts in the later 1800's.
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:29

If you look at Assyrian history, the last you hear of them is in 600 or so BC.
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Posts: 1791 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:32
Now, I'm not an expert on kurdish history, but wasn't Saladin a Kurd? How can you say that the Kurds came out of nowhere in the late 1800's, if there were records of
Kurds going back at least 800 years, and probably more? Besides, just because a people has immigrated to an area, and are not originally from there, doesn't mean that they don't have a vaid claim to a country, especially if they are the majority in that area. Turks are not from modern Turkey, does that mean that they have no claim to it? Of course not. The kurds have as much claim to a Kurdistan as the Turks have a claim to Turkey. It is only political circumstances that have prevented them from having their own country.

Tibet is the one other country from this list which has a solid claim to independence. They were independent and a separate linguistic and cultural entity for a long time and have only been invaded recently.
Western China has a string Uighur minority, but there are other people in the area, and the Han Chinese have just as good of a claim on it.
The Chechens were one of many people in the Caucasus mostly raiders and nomads before the Soviets created an autonomous republic fo them and concentrated them in there. On the one hand, they should probably be independent, but the limits of their territory is arguable.
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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:34

No not really, i dont know where you have been looking.
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Posts: 1791 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:42
This is from Wikipedia. I checked out Encyclopedia Bitannica and it says pretty much the same. Salsdin was a Kurd, so they must have had some presence in the Middle East back then. Why don't you drop the nationalistic pretense and start studying real history instead of propaganda?




Saladin (1137 or 11381193; Kurdish: Selaheddn Eyb, Arabic: Salah ad-Din Yusuf Ibn

Salah ad-Din Yusuf Ibn Ayyub; صلاح الدين يوسف ابن ايوب; Salah ad-Din means The Righteousness of the Faith) was a 12th century Kurdish Muslim military general who founded the Ayyubid dynasty of Egypt and Syria. He was also renowned in both the Christian and Muslim worlds for his leadership and military prowess tempered by his chivalry and merciful nature during the Crusades.

Saladin was born into a Kurdish family in Tikrit near the river Tigris and was sent to Damascus to
finish his education...
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
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Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:46

Same to you.

Kurds are descended from Medes, one of the peoples that wiped out the Assyrian Empire (I can see why you're so bitter)*, they are mentioned in a variety of ancient and medieval sources.  And Salahudin was specifically cited as a Kurd.

I suggest you go and read some books.

*Your "Assyrian" language is related to Assyrian in so much that it is only Semitic (same as Arabic and Hebrew), that is what I hear.

You can see how the Iranian languages, including Kurdish, develop on this chart from their root. It should explain a little for you where the Kurds came from.

 

 



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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:47

Originally posted by Decebal

Now, I'm not an expert on kurdish history, but wasn't Saladin a Kurd? How can you say that the Kurds came out of nowhere in the late 1800's, if there were records of
Kurds going back at least 800 years, and probably more? Besides, just because a people has immigrated to an area, and are not originally from there, doesn't mean that they don't have a vaid claim to a country, especially if they are the majority in that area. Turks are not from modern Turkey, does that mean that they have no claim to it? Of course not. The kurds have as much claim to a Kurdistan as the Turks have a claim to Turkey. It is only political circumstances that have prevented them from having their own country.

It is ok to claim land, but to claim other peoples history is just wrong.
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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 14:59

Anybody could of made that chart, for all i know you could of made it. When you say Kurds came from the Medians their is no prove to back you up. You just say you came from the medians. Your so called Kurdistan falls right on top of Assyria, the Median Empire is farther east into Iran.
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 15:06

Whatever you say son.

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/median/median.php
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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 15:08
Originally posted by Zagros Purya

Whatever you say son.

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/median/median.php

where on their does it say they are the present day kurds and in the map it shows, that is a picture of the median empire at its peak. I want a map of the median empire when it is just with in its people. 
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 15:11

More Iranian settling during the Hakhamanesh Dynasty.

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/achaemenids/achaemenids.p hp

More during Parthian:

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/parthians/parthians.php

Some more during Sasanian:

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/sassanids/sassanids.php

So you're either full of ignorance or lies.

 

 
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 15:13

Face facts, the vast majority of people in Northern Iraq are Kurds, not Assyrian and they have been there for thousands of years.
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Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 15:17
Yes, i agree with you today the Kurds are the majority of Northern Iraq, but what i dont agree with you is the kurds have NOT been their for more then 300 years. they are NOT the descenteds of the Medians. Thier is NO PROVE that shows you are the same people as the Medians. Fact is Fact
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