Captain Kidd

This is about the "pirate" Captain William Kidd 1654-1701, not the earlier one of the 1400s.

Questions:
- Was/is there really any Captain Kidd's treasure or not? If there was/is then where could it be?
- Kidd was or was not that much of a pirate?
- Are there any missing stanza from the ballad below?
- Is there  another pirate Robert Kidd, since different versions of the ballad have Captain/Robert/William Kidd? (Or is Robert just a reference to Jolly Roger, or robbery or robehod like Robin Hood / Roger Godberd?)
- Any connection with Masonry or Jacobites or Man in the Iron Mask etc? (Kidd died in 1701 aged 47, Iron Masked Man died in 1703 aged 45. Kidd related to "Dauphinee".)
- Could the Cocos island treasure have anything to do with Kidd?
- Does the Mormon Cumorah treasure have anything to do with Kidd's?
- There was a story i once read from gutenberg.org in which if i remember correctly his treasure was mentioned with a code map involved, but i can't remember the title/author, does anyone know it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captin_Kidd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Kidd_(song)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumorah

This is the ballad (combined different versions) :

You captains bold and brave, hear our cries, hear our cries
You captains bold and brave, hear our cries,
You captains brave and bold, though you seem uncontrolled
Don't for the sake of gold lose your souls, lose your souls.
Don't for the sake of gold lose your souls.

(O(h),) My name is/was Captain/Robert/William Kidd, as/when I sailed, as/when I sailed.
(O(h),) My name is/was Captain/Robert/William Kidd, as/when I sailed,
(Oh,) My name is/was Captain/Robert/William Kidd, (and) God's laws I did forbid,
/ (Oh,) My name is Captain/Robert/William Kidd. What the laws did still forbid
/ (Oh,) my name is/was Captain/Robert/William Kidd, Many wicked things I did,
Unluckily I did while i sailed
/ ((And) so/most wickedly/viciously I did, as/when I sailed, (as i sailed).)
/ And the law I did forbid, as I sailed, as I sailed.
((And) so/most wickedly/viciously I did, As I sailed.)
(last 2 lines x 2)

My faults I will display while I sail'd, (while I sail'd),
My faults I will display while I sail'd,
My faults I will display, Committed day by day
(1 line lost.) ... , while I sail'd.

(Oh,) My parents taught me well, as/when I sailed, as/when I sailed,
My parents taught me well, as/when I sailed,
My parents taught me well to shun the gates of hell,
Oh/But against them I rebelled as/when I sailed, (as i sailed).
(Oh, against them I rebelled, as I sailed.)

I cursed my father dear when I sailed, when I sailed,
I cursed my father dear when I sailed,
I cursed my father dear and her that did me bear,
And so wickedly did swear when I sailed.

I made a solemn vow when I sailed, when I sailed,
I made a solemn vow when I sailed,
I made a solemn vow to God I would not bow,
Nor myself one prayer allow, as I sailed.

I 'd/had a/the Bible in my hand as/when I sailed, as/when I sailed,
I 'd/had a Bible in my hand as/when I sailed,
I 'd/had a Bible in my hand by my father's great command,
And (i) buried/sunk it in the sand as/when I sailed.

(And/Oh/Well,) I murdered William Moore, as I sailed, as I sailed,
(O(h),) I murdered William Moore, as I sailed,
(O(h),) I murdered William Moore, and (I) left/laid him in his gore,
/ I laid him in his gore not-many/30/40 leagues from the shore
(Not-many/30/40 leagues from (the) shore, as I sailed, (as i sailed).)
/ O, I murdered William Moore As I sailed, as I sailed
(Not-many/30/40 leagues from shore, As I sailed)
/ I murdered William Moore As I sailed
(last 2 lines x 2)

Because a word he spoke when I sail'd, (when I sail'd),
Because a word he spoke when I sail'd,
Because a word he spoke, I with a bucket broke
His scull at one sad stroke, when I sail'd.

And being cruel(er) still, as I sailed, as I sailed,
And being cruel(er) still, as I sailed,
(And being cruel still,) the/my gunner I did kill,
And his precious blood did spill, as I sailed, (as I sailed).

My mate was sick and died, as I sailed, as I sailed,
My mate was sick and died as I sailed,
My mate was sick and died, which me much terrified,
When he called me to his bedside, as I sailed,

And unto me did say, "See me die, see me die."
And unto me did say, "See me die,"
And unto me did say, "Take warning now by me,
There comes a reckoning day, you must die.

"You cannot then withstand, when you die, when you die,
You cannot then withstand when you die,
You cannot then withstand the judgment of God's hand,
But bound then in iron bands you must die."

I was sick and nigh to death, as I sailed, as I sailed,
I was sick and nigh to death, as I sailed,
I was sick and nigh to death, and I vowed at/with every breath
To walk in wisdom's ways as/when I sailed.

I thought I was undone, as I sailed, as I sailed
I thought I was undone as I sailed,
I thought I was undone and my wicked glass had run,
But health did soon return, as I sailed.

(Well,) My repentance lasted not, as I sailed, as I sailed,
My repentance lasted not, as I sailed,
My repentance lasted not, my vows I soon forgot
Damnation 's/was my (just) lot as I sailed, (as I sailed).

Upon the ocean wide, when I sail'd, (when I sail'd),
Upon the ocean wide, when I sail'd,
Upon the ocean wide I robbed on every side,
With the most ambitious pride, when I sail'd.

I sailed/steered from sound to sound, as I sailed, as I sailed,
I sailed/steered from sound to sound, as I sailed,
I sailed/steered from sound to sound, and many ships I found,
And most of them/men I burned/drowned, as I sailed, (as I sailed).
(Oh, the most of men I burned/drowned, as I sailed.)

At famous Malabar when we sailed, (when we sailed),
At famous Malabar when we sailed,
At famous Malabar We went ashore, each tar,
And robbed the natives there, when we sailed.

Then after this we chased, while we sailed, (while we sailed),
Then after this we chased, while we sailed,
Then after this we chased A rich Armenian, graced
With wealth, which we embraced, while we sailed.

Many Moorish ships we took while we sailed, (while we sailed),
Many Moorish ships we took while we sailed,
Many Moorish ships we took; We did still for plunder look;
All conscience we forsook while we sailed.

I, Captain Culliford, while I sailed, (while I sailed),
I Captain Culliford, while I sailed,
I, Captain Culliford, Did many merchants board,
Which did much wealth afford, while we sailed.

A Quida merchant then while I sail'd, (while I sail'd),
A Quida merchant then while I sail'd,
A Quida merchant then I robbed of hundreds ten,
Assisted by my men, while I sail'd.

I spied three ships from France as I sailed, as I sailed,
I spied three ships from France, as I sailed,
I spied three ships from France, (and) on/to them I (did) advance(d),
(And I took them all by chance, as I sailed, as I sailed,)
(And) I took them all by chance, as I sailed.

I spied three ships of/from Spain as I sailed, as I sailed,
(O,) I spied three ships of/from Spain, as I sailed,
I spied three ships of/from Spain, (and) I fired/fixed on them a(-)main,
/ I spied three ships from Spain, I looted them for gain,
And/Till (the) most of them were slain, as I sailed, (as I sailed).
(And (the) most of them I slain, As I sailed.)

I 'd/had ninety bars of gold as I sailed, as I sailed,
I 'd/had ninety bars of gold as I sailed,
I 'd/had ninety bars of gold and (had) dollars manifold,
(With riches uncontrolled, as I sailed, as I sailed,)
With riches uncontrolled, as I sailed.

St. John, a ship of fame, when we sailed, (when we sailed),
St. John, a ship of fame, when we sailed,
St. John, a ship of fame We plundered when she came,
With more than I could name, when we sailed.

Upon the ocean seas while we sailed, (while we sailed),
Upon the ocean seas while we sailed,
Upon the ocean seas A warlike Portuguese
In sport did us displease, while we sailed.

Then fourteen ships I saw, as I sailed, as I sailed,
Then fourteen ships I saw, as I sailed,
Then fourteen ships I saw, and brave men they were
/ Then fourteen ships I saw and braved them anywhere,
(They were too much for me, as I sailed, as I sailed,)
Oh/Ah! They were too much for me, as I sailed.

Thus being o'ertaken at last, I must die, I must die
/ Thus being o'ertaken at last, As I sailed, as I sailed
Thus being o'ertaken at last, I must die
/ Thus being o'ertaken at last, As I sailed,
Thus being o'ertaken at last and into prison cast
And the sentence being past, I must die.
/ And sentence being passed, As I sailed.

Farewell the raging sea/main, I must die, I must die
Farewell the raging sea/main, I must die
Farewell, the raging main, to Turkey, France, and Spain
I ne'er/never shall see you again, (For) I must die.

Tho' we have resigned while we must die, (while we must die),
Tho' we have resigned while we must die,
Tho' we have resigned awhile, While fortune seemed to smile,
Now on the British isle we must die.

To Newgate (now) I 'm/am cast, and must die, and must die,
To Newgate (now) I'm cast, and (I) must die,
To Newgate (now) I'm cast, with a sad and heavy heart
/ To Newgate I am cast, in chains they bound me fast,
(To receive my just desert, I must die, I must die,)
To receive my just desert, (oh) I must die.

(So) To (the) Execution Dock I must go, must go,
(Oh) To (the) Execution Dock I must go,
(So) To (the) Execution Dock while/will many thousands flock,
/ (So) To (the) execution dock, lay/put my head upon the block
But I must bear the shock, And/I must die.
/ And no more the law(s) I'll mock, as I sail, as I sail

Farewell to London town and the pretty girls around
Farewell to London town and the pretty girls around
My friends are all punished and
No pardon can be found

Come all ye/you young and old, (and) see me die, see me die,
Come all ye/you young and old, (and) see me die,
Come all ye/you young and old, you 're/are welcome to my gold/goal
/ You are welcome to my gold/goal, And/for by it I('ve) lost my soul
And/For by it I('ve) lost my soul, And must die.
/ Come all you young and old I must die, (I must die).
(Come all you young and old I must die.)

Take (a) warning now by me, for I must die, (for) I must die,
Take (a) warning now by me, (for) I must die,
Take (a) warning now by me, and shun bad company,
Le(s)t you come to hell with me, for I must die, (I must die),
(Lest you come to hell with me, for I must die.)

(The original 1701 ballad is somewhat different with some other stanzas not in the later one, see https://web.archive.org/web/20140716023315/http://davidkidd.net/Captain_Kidd_Lyrics.html . I have added the extra stanzas in but the exact correct order/place of them is not certain.)

 -----

Captain Kidd is said to have buried 4 things:
- buried a bible in the sand.
- buried the slain William Moore "not many" or "30/40" "leagues from the sea/shore".
- buried 90 or 200 bars of gold somewhere.
- buried a little bit of treasure in Cherry Tree Field in Gardiners islandwhich was afterwards removed by Bellomont and used as evidence against him.
(There might be more but i can't find a full version of the lyrics of the Kidd broadside ballad online, only a selection of verses.)

So if there is any truth to the legend that he buried treasure somewhere then it might be connected with one of those 4 burials.
(1) The "treasure" might be either real gold/treasure, or the bible.
(2) The location might be "30 leagues from the sea", or in the sand?
Joseph Smith claimed to have found treasure up at Cumorah in the Finger Lakes area of New York state, and the names Moroni and Cumorah have been suggested to be from Comoros islands and their Moroni capital, where Kidd is supposed to have buried treasure, and the Kidd balad has some "religious" versions.

Timeline:
1430-1453 pirate William Kyd, Exmouth, off Guernsey, Rouen, Pol de Leon, Plymouth, Queenborough, Wight
c1654 Kidd born in Greenock/Dundee, (Inverclyde?) Scotland
father "a church of Scotland minister" lost at sea
local society supported family after father's death
settled in New York City
pirates since 1660s
apprentice on pirate ship
Money Cove nearly 200 yrs bef/aft 1875 ?
1689 member French-British pirate crew in Caribbean
Nevis
Marie-Galante (2000 pounds)
off New England (commissions of NY & Massachusetts, war Grand Alliance)
Caribbean (150 pounds)
Antigua
Trinity Church, NY? *
1691 Piscataqua river
1691 married English woman in NY (wealthiest)
"1694/5" High Court of the Admiralty in London ?
1695 NY, Mass, NH
Thames, Greenwich
NYC
1696 Cape of Good Hope, Comoros, Madagascar
1697 killed crewman
1698 Indian ship, Armenian merchants, E Indian merchandise passes (greatest prize)
1698 Madagascar, Indian ocean, South Seas
return home to Caribbean/America/NYC via Cherry Tree Field in Gardiner's island, Long island, Oyster bay
c1699 BlockIsland
2 yrs before court trial Palmer's deposition given in Rhode island
1699 Boston, Stone prison
1700 other passes dated
Parliament of England
Newgate prison
High Court of the Admiralty in London
1701 Howell 'Trial of Capt Kidd'
1701 Kidd hanged at Execution Dock in Wapping, London, England; body gibbeted over Thames at Tilbury Point for 3 yrs
1701 Ballad shortly after execution, London
more than 25 yrs after 1698 General History of Pirates
1808-1841 Camora
1816 Howell's 'Trial of Capt Kidd' published
1819-1826 Jose Smih treasure hunting
1823-7/1830/1838 Mormon
1823-1830 Cumorah named from Comoros & Kidd's treasure?
1824 Irving's Tales of a Traveller
1853 Campbell
1875 searches in Money Cove, west Grand Manan isl in Bay of Fundy
RLS's Treasure Island
1892 Appleton's Cyclopedia of American Biography article about Kidd
ear 20th cent passes resurfaced in London
1911 Dalton 'Real Capt Kidd'
1919/1921 Slipper Point Mystery by AH Seaman
c1920 Ferris painting
1937 Wilkins
1944 Bonner 'Ballad of Capt Kidd'
1945 Capt Kidd film
1951 Jackson '400 yr Journey of the Capt Kidd song family'
1953 Great Adventures of Capt Kidd film
1957 book Capt Kidd's Cat
1961 Hamilton 'Pirates of the Spanish Main'
1978 Botting 'The Pirates'
1983 Graham & Knight look for treasure in Vietnamese isl Phu Quoc (imprisoned 11 months)
1986 Gilbert 'Book of Pirates'
1986 Ritchie
1995 Cordingly 'Under the Black Flag'
2002 Zack's book Pirate Hunter
2006 Blackbeard mini-series
2007 ship found by Indiana Uni divers off Catalina isl / Dominican Rep just sth of LaRomana
2008 Konstam 'Complete History of Piracy'
2011 Kidd's canon added to childrens museum of Indianapolis
2012 David Kidd 'Capt Kidd's Music'
2013 Schoenherr 'Song of Capt Kidd'
2014 Grant H Palmer
2015 possibly silver ingot found in wreck off coast of Ile Sainte-Marie in Madagascar
2015 Unesco say ingot is lead
(nearly200yrs bef/aft 1875?)



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 05-Mar-2019 at 01:36

Thanks Sidney. In this case i agree that the ballads are not necessarily likely to be very reliable, though in other cases like Robin Hood the ballads are certainly more reliable. Possibly though the things in the ballad(s) (even the late versions) might have been based on events from Kidd's life.  My reason for looking at the ballads was because i thought the buried treasure might possibly match something in the ballad like the burial of the bible or burial of Moore.