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Saraswati river location

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Arthur-Robin View Drop Down

Joined: 23-Feb-2006
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Saraswati river location
    Posted: 23-Sep-2018 at 17:09

Sarasvati/Saraswati is an ancient Indian/Hindu goddess and/or river. As a goddess Sarasvati (or Vach, or Viraj) is the wife/consort of the god Brahma. The name/word Sarasvati or Sarasvant is said to mean "running/flowing water" or "being full of water" and it is considered to also be related to Saranyu. She is a goddess of wisdom, and is also called the "mother of the Vedas", as well as "keeper of the celestial waters" (she was also connected with harvests). Some scholars have compared Brahma and Sarasvati/Saraisvati with the Biblical Abraham and Sarai/Sarah. (Sarai/Sarah is also/alternatively similar to Sri or Lakshmi the wife of Vishnu.) Sarasvati/Sarsuti is also claimed to have been an ancient river of India (or of the Indo-Aryan homeland) in ancient Vedic texts. The existence of a river Sarasvati in India is disputed. Some think that the "Sarasvati" or "Ghaggar-Hakra" river once flowed through the Thar desert area on the east side of the Indus river, and that this river was disrupted and went underground or dried-up. Some modern scholars call the early ancient Indus Valley civilisation/culture the "Indus-Sarasvati". (There is maybe a possibility that the Indus Valley civilisation might be connected with the time of Joseph's famine? After the Sarasvati dissappeared leaving only the Indus river, the main civilisation later shifted from the Indus to the Ganges. Deyo's book mentions a similar dissappeared river across northern Arabia between Iraq and Israel/Palestine.) Some alternative theories have suggested that the Sarasvati river might have been in Afghanistan/Pakistan rather than in India/Pakistan. The name of the river Irrawaddy in Burma/Myanmar also possibly similar to Sarasvati. There are ancient Hindu & Buddhist temples/cities in Indo-China.
 We have sometimes thought that the Sarasvati might have a connection with the Euphrates of Mesopotamia and/or the Perath/Euphrates of Eden in the Bible. (The Euphrates river is also supposed to be the same as "the (great) river" (or) "Ir" of Genesis 10 and ....) The Bible has 3 or 4 or 5 rivers of Eden (Pishon around Havilah, Gihon around Cush, Hiddekel/Tigris around Asshur, Perath/Euphrates around unnamed land). There were 3 or 4 main early ancient riverine civilizations of Egypt (Nile), Mesopotamia/Elam (Euphrates/Tigris), India (Indus/Sarasvati/Ganges), and China (Hwangho/Yellow/Yangtse). If the 4 rivers of Eden possibly correspond with the 4 riverine civilisations in order then Sarasvati may match the 3rd or 4th river of Eden?
The 4 or 5 rivers of Eden are connected with the swastika and/or the "Atlantis Cross"; possibly the -svati of Sarasvati could be connected with the swastika?

 The purpose of this article of ours is to see if we can possibly find the earlierst origins of the goddess/river Sarasvati. Obviously this is still more-difficult while the Indus Valley script remains undeciphered. Firstly we will give a list of the most famous rivers of world history, and we will give a list of our origins candidates for Sarasvati, and then we will pick-out and discuss the couple/few main candidates from our list. (Our origins candidates focus mainly on Indo-European or Sumerian/Akkadian or Biblical goddesses.)

List of the main most famous rivers of the world and history:
UK/British: Thames Calder, Avene/Avon/Badon/Charford/Bradford, Severn/Sabrina (7 mouths), Dee, Humber, Glein, Dubglas, Bassas, Wantsum, Stour, Tribruit, Skell, Colne, Yarmouth, Tyne, Tees, Don, Granta/Cam, Cam/Cambula/Camel, Trent, Trahannon, Welland, Medway, Uske, Sore, Clyde/Cluth, Carron, Dart/Dereunt/Cray, Blackwater, Eye, Deben, Waveney, Ruoichin/Ruithin, Dour/Dubris, Antona, Witham, Winwaed, Leven, Akalon, Periron, Gania, Barba, Alba, Cichican?
Spanish/Iberian: Guadalquvir/Betis, Tagus,  Ebro
German: Rhine/Renis, Danube, Eider/Aegir,  Oder, Elbe, Lorelei
French: Seine, Loire, Meuse, Scheldt, Marne, Yonne, Rhone, Riviera, Ripuarian,
Italy: Tiber
Greek: river Oceanus, Styx, Eridanus
Poprad, Vistula, Volga, Don, Phasis
Egyptian: Nile/Hapi (7 mouths), river of Egypt, El-Arish, Tritonis
Anatolia: Aranzah(as), Scamander, Sangarius, Cebren, Ceyhan, Halys, Orontes, Abana, Araxes
Biblical/Israel/Palestine: Life/Paradise/Eden, Gihon, Pishon, Kishon, Olivet, Jordan, Syk, Jabbok, Cherith, Arnon, Kidron, Zared, Kanah
Mesopotamia/Iraq: Euphrates/Perath/Nar/Gihon, Tigris/Hiddekel/Itak/Khal, Shinar, Mesopotamia, Khebar, Hubur, Ebernari, Diyala, Zab
Iran: Ulai, Oxus, Jaxartes, Karun,  AredviSuraAnahita?
India: Sarasvati, Indus, Saptasindu, Punjab, Ganges, Yamuna/Jumna
Lena, Ob/Irtysh, Tarim
China: Yellow/Hwangho, Yangtse, HoPo
Mekong, Yenisey
Australia/NZ: Murray, Waikato, Hutt
America: Mississipi/Missouri, Colorado, Grande, Mackenzie, Lawrence, Yukon
Amazon, Orinoco, LaPlata, Parana
RioDeOro, Limpopo, Niger, Zaire/Congo, Vaal, Orange, Zambesi, Volta, Oya, Osun, Faro, Yemaja, Malua/Malva.
underground/undersea rivers of water (discoverved by scientists and mentioned in news about ten years ago now). MilkyWay/Galaxy.

List of our Sarasvati correspondences candidates:
Celtic: Ceridwen, Heledd, Severn;
Slavic: Jurata, Slatababa;
Classical: Salacia, Ceres, Helle, Persephone, Hera/Herwa/Chera, Eridanus, Aphrodite, Sarpedon, Rhadamanthys, Halirrhot(h)ius, Callirhoe;
Hittite: Sertapsuruhi, Aranzahas, Napsaras, Halmasuitta; Araxes; Jaxartes;
Biblical: Riphath, Arphaxad, Shelah, famine, Sarah, Hazarmaveth, unnamed, Ir, Calah, Euphrates/Perath, Vashti, Zarephath, Asheratian, Azar;
Mesopotamian: Charax, Sala, Sakhartar, Allatu, Sarpanitu, Ereshkigal, Suluhitu, Atrahasis, Sarraitu/Sarrahitu, Serida/Aya, Sirtur/Duttur, Sarrat-deri,  Sirrush, Serakh/Nirah, Sursunabu, Aratta, Subartu/Sumasti/Suedin;
Iranian: Harahvaiti, Haurvatat, Zervan, Ariaspae, Sagartia/Asagarta, Herat, Sattagydia; Hala;
Indian: Saranyu, Indus valley seals script, swastika; Irrawaddy?
Chachihuitlicue; Saracura.

More detailed discussion of our main candidates:

Sala/Salas the wife of the storm god Adad/Ishkur is possibly similar in name and nature to Sarasvati. However, Sala appears to possibly not to have been a native Sumerian deity, and we think that Sarasvati likely ultimately has a Sumerian original.
(Though there might be a possibility that the Aztec goddess Chalchihuitlicue could be connected with Shala/Sala/Salas and with Sarasvati?)

One of our Sarasvati candidates is the Sumerian/Dilmunite goddess Suluhitu (compare the goddess Sarra Itu/Hitu?), or Lahamun the "Sarpanitu of Dilmun", or the Akkadian/Dilmunite god/king Atrahasis. This candidate is interesting in that it could agree with the land of Dilmun being identified with the Indus Valley. Suluhitu is the wife of the god Enzag/Inzak, and the latter god might possibly be connected with the god Indra (which might possibly be linked with the place name Indus/India?) Or alternatively, Sarasvati could possibly be connected with the land of Aratta which could have been a sort of Indo-European homeland (similar to Dilmun)? (There is an interesting similarity of the name Sagartia/Asagarta with Asgard?)
Some sources connect the Sarasvati with  the Avestan Harauvati/Harahvaiti/Arahvaiti/Haraxvati/Haraxati name of the Helmand/Haetumant river in Arachosia (or the Harut in Afghanistan). (Harahvaiti is the name of one of the 16 lands created by Ahura Mazda.) The Helmand/Haraxvati area might perhaps be near the location of Aratta and/or Dilmun? Sarasvati is related to the words saras "pool, pond or lake", and sarasi "stagant pool, swamp", and the hypothetical proto-Indo-European original version of the name/word Sarasvati is supposed to be 'Selesuntih' with a meaning "marshy, full of pools" or "she with many lakes". Herodotus (3:17) mentions a lake in the region nearby Chorasmia. There was a lake in Ariaspae/Drangiana area, and in the Herat/Aria area.

Another candidate of ours for Sarasvati is the goddess Eresh-kigal/Allatu. The word gal means "great". Saras and Eresh are similar, and there is an S- prefix sometimes found in some Indoeuropean names/words. In Hittite one of the possible candidates for Sarasvati and/or for Ereshkigal is the goddess Sertapsuruhi. (Uru can just mean "city" or "man".) Sertapsuruhi is possibly similar to the Greek Persephone. Sarasvati river dissappearing underground is similar to Ereshkigal/Persephone abducted to the Underworld. (India could also have been a western underworld from an Indo-Sumerian perspective? Sarasvati as goddess of wisdom could also be similar to Ereshkigal? Sarasvati might also/alternatively be similar to Zervan god/goddess of time?) Though Persephone/Proserpina might actually be related to Prithivi rather than Sarasvati. Sarasvati could possibly be similar to the Greek goddess Aphrodite (or Aphros-dite) who arose from the foam/froth of the ocean/sea. Though the goddess queen/lady Hera/Herwa/Chera might perhaps be a better candidate Greek match for Sarasvati? Or alternatively, the Indian river/goddess Sarasvati might perhaps be similar to the Hittite great river god Aranazah(as)? (There is an S and H interchange between Indo-Aryan and Greek. V/w and H sometimes interchange between some Indo-European languages. Maybe Aranzahas could further connected with Aratta, Aryan, Araxes, Alans, Atrahasis, Atlas, Arali/Aralu?)

At this stage i am unsure which of the above candidates (if they are not all wrong) is the most likely match.

(This topic also shows how extremely important clean/natural water is to humans and culture/civilization, and confirms that fluoridation is wrong.)

Edited by Arthur-Robin - 24-Sep-2018 at 14:03
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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jlaughs View Drop Down

Joined: 31-Aug-2018
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  Quote jlaughs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2018 at 04:41
This is such a thorough list! "Saraswati" remains a much revered goddess in India. Today, she is considered a giver of intellect, wisdom, and knowledge. She is most commonly honored by schools, colleges, and other educational institutions in the country. The prayers are a means to an end. That is, she is mainly worshiped by those who seek good grades or those interested in furthering their academic prospects. I remember reading an anthropological account of this. I can't remember where or the title. I will post that paper here when I find it.
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