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Biblical historical truth vindications.

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Biblical historical truth vindications.
    Posted: 28-Jul-2017 at 21:18

This is a similar topic to the one we once posted in Historum forum http://historum.com/religion/123465-biblical-historical-truth-vindications.html .

After begging "God" (Yhwh/Yeshua) to have mercy/grace on us and save us from the external and internal hell we have long been trapped in, we have in the last 4 days had some amazing seeming possible discoveries.

In the last days/week or week/weeks we had been involved in some postings and discussions about Job (of the Book of Job), and about Sinuhe (12th dyn Egypt) and Seir the Horite (Gen 36 & 1 Chron 1), and about the Edomite kings list (Gen 36 & 1 Chron 1) and the Hyksos (15th/16th dyn Egypt). We were wrong about Seir & Sinuhe, but we have now seemingly found true matches after further investigation.

7 sons/sheikhs of Seir = Horus kings race of Dynasties 0, 1, 2, 3 of Egypt?
(Horites ~ Mt Hurum? Hurrians? Akharru? Kharu? Shasu-Hor?)

Jacob 17 yrs = Khufwey/Khufu/Cheops 17 yrs (~ Kubau?) (& Philitis.)
Goshen = Giza/Gizeh/Er-ges-her "beside the high".

(Moses was in 2nd half of the 12th dyn.)

8 Edomite [Amalekite] kings (between Moses & Saul) = Amorite kings of Isin & Babylon 1?
0. Beor ~ Bursin/Amarsin (Ur 3 or Isin)? or (Ash)urra-iwiti/Erraimiti (Isin)? Beon/Bnon/Banon/Baion?
1. Bela/Balaam ben Beor, of Dinhabah ~ Naplanum (Larsa/Amorite)? and/or Libi-enlil? Enlil-bani/Insakhbani? Belkapkapi? Beon/Bnon/Banon/Baion? Avaris/el-Daaba?
2. Job(ab) [Jashub] ben Zerah, from Bozrah ~ Zambia & Tenirpisha/Iterpisha (Isin)? or Enlilbani? or Ishbi-erra (Isin)? & Ushpia (Assyria)? & Ushiabigal priest-king of Susa (Elam)? or Apopi/Apophis? Yakob-her? Nub?
3. Husham from land Temani ~ Damiq-ili-shu/Dawig-nini-shu? Shamsi-adad? Lipitenlil/Kush? or Ishme-dagan (Isin)? Kudurmabuk (Elam)? Liul-ashugum/Libi-ashugun/Lipit-ishtar (Isin)? Dilmun? Sheshi?
4. Hadad ben Bedad (Moab, Avith) ~ Dagshi-ash-Muru/Shamsi-Adad 1? &/or Dashashi-uruash/Muru/Ur-ninurta (Isin)? or son of Ishmedagan? or Waradsin? Khamudy? Anather? scarab at Baghdad? Avaris?
5. Samlah from Masrekah ~ Ishme-dagan? and/or Iasmah-addu (Mari)? or Zimrilim of Mari? or Zambia (Isin)? or Amar-sin/Bur-sin (Isin)? &/or Salatis? Staan? Semqen?
6. S(h)aul (ben Achbor) from Rehoboth(-Ir "by the river") ~ Sinmuballit/Anuba-mubalit (Babylon)? or (Ash)urra-iwiti/Erra-imitti (Isin)? &/or Salatis/Saites? (Apachnan?)
7. Baal-hanan ben Achbor ~ Hammu-rabi (Amorite, Babylon 1)? & father Anuha-mubalit? and/or Apachnan? Iannas/Anan/Khyan? Bnon? Aper-anat?
8. Hadar/Hadad of Pau(l) ~ Saharki-bal/Ishki-bal (Sealands)? or Kudur-mabuk &/or Warad-sin of Iamutbal? Khamudy?

Cushan-rishathaim (Husham?) ~ (Ash)urra-iwiti/Erra-imitti (8 yrs, Isin)
&/or his father Lipitenlil/Kush (Isin)?
&/or Si-imti Shillak / Simti Shilhak (priest-king of Elam)?
&/or his son Kudur-mabuk (Adda of the West)?
&/or Warad-sin or Rim-sin/Eri-aku (Larsa)? or Gulkishar/Shushi?
or Kashtiliash of Kassites? or Mitanni?

(Hyksos are between Moses & Saul.)
(Hyksos/Amu ~ Shepherds of Exodus 2? Amalekites/Omaya?)
Hyksos seemingly match Babylon 1 dynasty?

Hyksos 0 (Manetho) & Babylonian dyn:
Salatis/Sanati ~ Sinmubalit/Anuhamubalit? Xatal/Gandash? Sahasrabala? Samlah? Kashtiliash? Saul?
Bnon/Beon ~ Hammu-rabi (same reign length)? Agum? Bizuiru/Kashtiliash? Baalhanan? Beor?
Apachnan ~ Abieshua? Anuhamubalit?
Apophis ~ Abisuttash? Ushigu/Ushshi? Agum?
Iannas ~ Baal-Hanan?
Assis/Aseth ~ Ammisatana? Samsusatana? Abisuttash? Ushshi?

Hyksos 1 & Babylonian dyn:
Sheshi ~ Shamsiadad? Ishmedagan? Sinmuballit? Ishbierra? Ushshi?
Yakub-her ~ (K)Hammu-rabi? Agum?
Quppen ~ Agum?
Khayan/Iannas/Staan ~ Ammiditana/Ammisatana "he-goat, leader, king"? Khammu-rabi? Samsuiluna?
/Samsuiuduna?
Apepi [Akhekh] ~ Abieshua/Abiskata &/or Ammisatana &/or Ammi-saduga "warrior + serpent"?
or Agum? Abirattash? Jobab?
Khamudy ~ Ammi-ditana? Samsuditana/Samsusatana? Hadad?

Hyksos 2 & Babylonian dyn:
Anat-her ~ Sahasra-bala? Gandash/Xatal? Kashtiliash? Anayer? Agag?
Yakobaam ~ Agum? Agag?


Shishak/Susakim ~ Tutankh-amun (18th dyn)?
Zerah ~ Ramses 2 "Sestura/Sesostris" (19th dyn)?

Egyptian-Biblical Timeline Table:
1st or 2nd dyn -- Abraham?
3rd-4th -- Joseph/Jacob
12th dyn -- Moses/Og
Hyksos -- between Moses & Saul
18th -- Tahtimodshi?
18th (Amarna) -- David/Solomon/Genubath
18th -- Shishak
19th -- Zerah



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 31-Jul-2017 at 15:23
It is wrong/evil/slavery that i am being Forced (no equal options choice) by the elite authorities & my disadvantaged situation to eat (lots of) Fluoridated (etc) water every meal (grains) every day.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2017 at 10:23
Sorry it seems that i got the Seir/Horites one wrong (for the 2nd time). The others may be more or less alright, though there could possibly be more of the others that are wrong too. In my historical researches i have found that discoveries are made by persons willing to taking some risks but while always checking and objectively seeking the truth. Seir and the Horites names now seemingly match the Horus kings of the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt (god-kings, '0', 1st, 2nd, & 3rd dynasties). I'll have to edit and correct the previous first post.

Also a new seeming discovery. The 5th dynasty of Egypt seems to match Joseph's sons.

3rd dynasty:
Djoser's 7 yr famine ~ Joseph's 7 yr famine?
Sekhemhet ~ Zaphenath-paneah/Joseph?
Ra-hotep priest of Heliopolis ~ Potiphera preist of On?

4th dynasty:
Sneferu ~ Pharaoh? Zaphenath/Joseph?
Khufwey/Khufu/Cheops 17 yrs ~ Jacob 17 yrs
3 queens of Khufu ~ 3 remaining wives of Jacob?
Philitis ~ Jacob? Israelites? Joseph?
Giza/Gizeh/Er-ges-her "beside the high" ~ Goshen?
Djedefre ~ Joseph? or Judah?
Sphinx ~ Lion of Judah (Gen 49)? Zaphenath/Joseph? wolf Benjamin?
Khafre/Chephren ~ Ephraim?
Menkaure/Mycerinus ~ Manasseh? or Machir? or Benjamin?
Shepseskaf ~ Zelophehad?

5th dynasty:
Rudidet (Rhodopis) ~ Rachel? or Asenath dtr of Potiphera?
Userkaf ~ Israel/Jacob? or Joseph?
Sahu-re ~ Zaphenath/Joseph? or Israel? or ...?
Nefer...-re ~ Ephraim?
Shepseka-re ~ Shuthelah?
Niuser-re ~ Manasseh?
Menkauhor ~ Machir? or Manasseh?
Djedkare ~ Gilead? or Judah?
Unas/Wenis (Welid?) ~ Ulam? or Levi?
Una (Ouna) ~ Ulam?



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 30-Jul-2017 at 10:28
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2017 at 14:40
Another new possible discovery? Confirming Solomon being around about the Amarna period (Akhenaten) we have further found these possible matches:


Jakeh ~ Heqawaset (Amenhotep 3)? Sakere/Smenkhkare? Akherre? Aten? Akhenaten?
Agur (Prov 30) ~ Akhen-aten/Khu-n-aten / Naphuriya/Huriya? Ay? Ankhkheperure (Smenkhkare)?
Ithiel ~ Itnetjer / Ay? Ikhnaton/Khu-n-aten/Akhenaten? Hartitifin? Nefer-titi?
Ucal ~ Wetjes-khau / Tutankh-amen (n/l)?
Mother of Lemuel ~ Queen of Sheba ~ Smenkhkare? Eje? Nefertiti?
Lemuel (22 letters) ~ Horemhab Meryamun (21 yrs)? or Ramses? Nimmuriya (Amenhotep 3)? Ilumailu/Anumanu (Sealands)? Menelik?

Queen of Sheba (Makeda/Tamrin/Nicaule/Balqis, 1 Kings 10, 2 Chronicles 9) ~ Smenkhkare/Sakere/Saanekht? KV 55? Nefertiti (Rian Boysen)? Tadu-hepa? Abdi-heba? Hatshepsut/Punt? Ankh-esenpa-aten? Merytaten?
Menelik (Ethiopian 'Kebra Nagast') ~ Menkheperure? Meryamun Horemhab? Lemuel? Luqman? Menes? Menelaus? Manasseh? Menophres? Maneros? Memnon? Merneptah? Smenkhka-re?

Hadad (1 Kings 11:19-20) ~ holy father Ay? Akhenaten? Aton? adon Horemhab?
Genubath (1 Kings 11:19-20) ~ Ankh-en-maat / Akhenaten/Ikhnaton/Khunaten? Hor-em-hab? or Amenemape/Amenmopet? or Nub?

Shishak/Susakim (1 Kings 14; 2 Chronicles 12) ~ Tutankh-mun?
Zerah (2 Chronicles 14:9) ~ Sestura (Ramses 2)?

I have to correct some things i've found wrong which were in the first post.

NO MORE FREE DISCOVERIES FROM ME UNTIL YOU CRIMS STOP FORCING ME TO EAT FLUORIDATED WATER EVERY MEAL.


Edited by Arthur-Robin - 02-Aug-2017 at 10:53
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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2017 at 17:12
The historical accuracy of the bible really depends on on which particular books you are referring to.  Genesis through Deuteronomy has probably has some historical information in it, but also a lot of legendary material.  After all, there weren't any humans around in the first 5 days of creation, so how would the writer of Genesis know what happened?

When it comes to books like Samuel and Kings, and Chronicles, archeology has confirmed a lot what is in those books, and we have solid evidence for some of the kings described in Kings and Chronicles after Solomon.  But that is to be expected - the Old Testament is a variety of different books, and while Chronicles, Kings are mostly historical reporting, books like Psalms are mostly poetry and you don't expect a lot of history from poetry.   The historical accuracy of each book of the Old Testament has to be judged on its own, the books of the OT are not all the same. 
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2017 at 11:12
We have found every book historically true from Genesis to Revelation. The only way to answer is to pick one agreed example from each book one at a time and discuss it. Is  Jacob & Joseph a good one? (I may not have much time or freedom though. I have only been hanging around forums because bad water stopping me from being able to do other off-computer things i need/want to do.)

Jacob matches Khufu/Cheops:
- name same Khufu/Cheops/Khufwey = Jacob/Yakov (the reversal of elements is also in other names matches).
- Jacob 17 yrs in Egypt; Khufu highest known year is 17.
- Jacob had 3 remaining wives; Khufu has 3 satellite pyramids of "queens".
- Goshen of Jacob = Giza/Gizeh/Er-ges-her "beside the high" (roughly modern Cairo).
- Herodotus said Philitis "lover of righteousness" dwelt at Giza in 4th dyn, which matches Jacob/Israel/Joseph there then.
- 7 yrs famine of Joseph matches 7 yrs famine of Djoser/Zoser.
- "Eternal mountains" of Genesis 49 & Deut 33 seemingly may match pyramids.
- Lion of Judah of Genesis 49 seemingly may match Sphinx.
- Potiphera priest of On may match Ra-hotep priest of Heliopolis (reversal of elements again), &/or , Htp-ren[...](Nebty) of Sekhemhet complex, &/or Ra-user father of 5th dyn kings.
- The orthodox ascribed date for 4th dynasty is only their theory not fact. There are many evidences that the Egyptian dates are wrong and too long/old.
Lots more but can only do it in bits and pieces.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 02-Aug-2017 at 11:17
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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2017 at 23:27
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin

We have found every book historically true from Genesis to Revelation. The only way to answer is to pick one agreed example from each book one at a time and discuss it. Is  Jacob & Joseph a good one? (I may not have much time or freedom though. I have only been hanging around forums because bad water stopping me from being able to do other off-computer things i need/want to do.)

Jacob matches Khufu/Cheops:
- name same Khufu/Cheops/Khufwey = Jacob/Yakov (the reversal of elements is also in other names matches).
- Jacob 17 yrs in Egypt; Khufu highest known year is 17.
- Jacob had 3 remaining wives; Khufu has 3 satellite pyramids of "queens".
- Goshen of Jacob = Giza/Gizeh/Er-ges-her "beside the high" (roughly modern Cairo).
- Herodotus said Philitis "lover of righteousness" dwelt at Giza in 4th dyn, which matches Jacob/Israel/Joseph there then.
- 7 yrs famine of Joseph matches 7 yrs famine of Djoser/Zoser.
- "Eternal mountains" of Genesis 49 & Deut 33 seemingly may match pyramids.
- Lion of Judah of Genesis 49 seemingly may match Sphinx.
- Potiphera priest of On may match Ra-hotep priest of Heliopolis (reversal of elements again), &/or , Htp-ren[...](Nebty) of Sekhemhet complex, &/or Ra-user father of 5th dyn kings.
- The orthodox ascribed date for 4th dynasty is only their theory not fact. There are many evidences that the Egyptian dates are wrong and too long/old.
Lots more but can only do it in bits and pieces.


Your facts are off in a number of points:

a.  Khufu's reign was said to have lasted 63 years by the ancient historian Manetho, or 23 to 46 years by modern historians, neither of which matches the 17 years you claim.

b.  Jacob could be said to have 2 wives (Leah and Rachel) or 4 wives (Leah, Rachel, and their hand maidens), not sure where you got 3.  Your anaology to Khufu's wives falls apart.

c.  The bible makes it plain that Jacob was nevef a pharaoh.  Joseph did become the grand vizier to the pharaoh, but the bible never said he was working for his dad.

d.  7 was a symbolic number in the past (7 days of the week, for example), to it is not surprising that there could be more than one famine lasting "7 years".  

and so on.  Your analogy of Khufu to Jacob  requires ignoring much of what the bible actually says.  Now traditonal Egyptian dating may be off, but it seems quite a stretch to equate Khufu with Jacob.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2017 at 01:07
i was not there AR!Sorry!Smile
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2017 at 17:00
Originally posted by amature historian


Your facts are off in a number of points:
a.  Khufu's reign was said to have lasted 63 years by the ancient historian Manetho, or 23 to 46 years by modern historians, neither of which matches the 17 years you claim.


Khufu/Cheops (4th dyn) reign length ranges from
63 yrs Manetho, to
50 yrs Herodotus, to
"46 yrs" one modern orthodox theory (of cattle-count?) to
34 yrs Great Pyramid inscription (biennial cattle-count) to
26/27 yrs Dakhla inscription (bienniel cattle-count) to
23 yrs Turin King List, to
17 yrs Great Pyramid inscription (taken verbatim) [matching Jacob in Genesis], to
14 yrs Dakhla inscription (taken verbatim).
The only ones that are near-contemporary reliable are the verbatim inscription 14 and 17; and the 17 years one is the highest known year count for Khufu/Cheops (eg see wikipedia Khufu article).
I might also point out that in Sumerian king list Kubaba/Kubau (name similar to Khufu/Jacob) has 60 + 4(0) yrs which is same as Khufu of Manetho, and similar to dates of Isaac (60), Job (140), Abraham (100).
I could check for any other extra matches too.

Originally posted by amature historian


b.  Jacob could be said to have 2 wives (Leah and Rachel) or 4 wives (Leah, Rachel, and their hand maidens), not sure where you got 3.  Your anaology to Khufu's wives falls apart.


This is mere knit-picking about mere [semantics?] Jacob had2 wives and 2 extra [concubines?] In modern terminology he had 4 partners. But Rachel died before he went down into Egypt so he had 3 remaining living "wives". Khufu/Cheops has 3 satellite pyramids which some sources claim to be of his queens/wives. 4th dynasty family tree shows Khufu//Cheops with 2 (plus 2) main wives like Jacob.

Originally posted by amature historian


c.  The bible makes it plain that Jacob was nevef a pharaoh.  Joseph did become the grand vizier to the pharaoh, but the bible never said he was working for his dad.


Things are not necessarily so simple as that. The bible doesn't say they weren't; the Egyptian"king" lists are not necessarily strict on "kings" (plus "Horus race" of 1st-3rd dyns may be more like great nobles/lords). Joseph was 2nd to pharaoh. He was "adon" over the land. He rode in "chariot" and wore signet ring. He married daughter of priest of On. He saved Egypt and the world from famine/drought. Gen 49 & Deut 33 also talk of Joseph in quite high terms. Jacob was settled in the best of the land (Goshen/Ramses). Herodotus says Philitis was living at Giza then; that the Egyptians hated/disliked the pyramid builders (alot like they hated Hyksos and like modern anti-Semitism) Also one can not deny the actual seeming contemporary historical evidences (eg picture of Sekhemhet). Ephraim and Manasseh seem to be like Jacob's/Joseph's heirs. The bible doesn't say any much about what happened after story.  (Yes I may have to prepare a better answer to this one if situation permits.)

Originally posted by amature historian


d.  7 was a symbolic number in the past (7 days of the week, for example), to it is not surprising that there could be more than one famine lasting "7 years".  


This is not valid because otherwise you can just dismiss anything as "possibly" "just symbolic". We find a exact match and they/you can just dismiss it as oh its only possibly symbolic? Wehave proven exact matches; they have not and can not prove it is just symbolic (they can only claim oh it could just be symbolic). Was the 6 day war and many other just symbolic?

Originally posted by amature historian


and so on.  Your analogy of Khufu to Jacob  requires ignoring much of what the bible actually says.  Now traditonal Egyptian dating may be off, but it seems quite a stretch to equate Khufu with Jacob.


I have not "ignored" anything the bible says, I just looked objectively and thoroughly to see if there was any quality real historical match (without bending/twisting/ignoring either bible or history).
There is nothing that can disprove because i am certain from the evidences i have seen that it is not wrong. Yes there may perhaps be alot of things like you wrote that people require us to explain before they are willing to accept it (I don't deny maybe we need to explain alot more than we have usually done, but it is not easy in such bad situation as we are in).
And really why bother? Every time i have gone to extreme hell efforts to write up a better paper on any of our discoveries they still just ignore. See the Arthur's battle and the Atlantis threads for example. If i had known before the things i needed to write about i would have. But not until people put their criticisms do we know what things they need to know. (Why in last 10years is it i never get replies to have to answer except at times when i need/want to try stay offline more?)

It is wrong/evil/slavery that i am being Forced (no equal options choice) by the elite authorities & my disadvantaged situation to eat (lots of) Fluoridated (etc) water every meal (grains) every day.
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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2017 at 21:49
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin

Originally posted by amature historian


Your facts are off in a number of points:
a.  Khufu's reign was said to have lasted 63 years by the ancient historian Manetho, or 23 to 46 years by modern historians, neither of which matches the 17 years you claim.


Khufu/Cheops (4th dyn) reign length ranges from
63 yrs Manetho, to
50 yrs Herodotus, to
"46 yrs" one modern orthodox theory (of cattle-count?) to
34 yrs Great Pyramid inscription (biennial cattle-count) to
26/27 yrs Dakhla inscription (bienniel cattle-count) to
23 yrs Turin King List, to
17 yrs Great Pyramid inscription (taken verbatim) [matching Jacob in Genesis], to
14 yrs Dakhla inscription (taken verbatim).
The only ones that are near-contemporary reliable are the verbatim inscription 14 and 17; and the 17 years one is the highest known year count for Khufu/Cheops (eg see wikipedia Khufu article).
I might also point out that in Sumerian king list Kubaba/Kubau (name similar to Khufu/Jacob) has 60 + 4(0) yrs which is same as Khufu of Manetho, and similar to dates of Isaac (60), Job (140), Abraham (100).
I could check for any other extra matches too. 


Originally posted by amature historian


b.  Jacob could be said to have 2 wives (Leah and Rachel) or 4 wives (Leah, Rachel, and their hand maidens), not sure where you got 3.  Your anaology to Khufu's wives falls apart.


This is mere knit-picking about mere [semantics?] Jacob had2 wives and 2 extra [concubines?] In modern terminology he had 4 partners. But Rachel died before he went down into Egypt so he had 3 remaining living "wives". Khufu/Cheops has 3 satellite pyramids which some sources claim to be of his queens/wives. 4th dynasty family tree shows Khufu//Cheops with 2 (plus 2) main wives like Jacob.

Originally posted by amature historian


c.  The bible makes it plain that Jacob was nevef a pharaoh.  Joseph did become the grand vizier to the pharaoh, but the bible never said he was working for his dad.


Things are not necessarily so simple as that. The bible doesn't say they weren't; the Egyptian"king" lists are not necessarily strict on "kings" (plus "Horus race" of 1st-3rd dyns may be more like great nobles/lords). Joseph was 2nd to pharaoh. He was "adon" over the land. He rode in "chariot" and wore signet ring. He married daughter of priest of On. He saved Egypt and the world from famine/drought. Gen 49 & Deut 33 also talk of Joseph in quite high terms. Jacob was settled in the best of the land (Goshen/Ramses). Herodotus says Philitis was living at Giza then; that the Egyptians hated/disliked the pyramid builders (alot like they hated Hyksos and like modern anti-Semitism) Also one can not deny the actual seeming contemporary historical evidences (eg picture of Sekhemhet). Ephraim and Manasseh seem to be like Jacob's/Joseph's heirs. The bible doesn't say any much about what happened after story.  (Yes I may have to prepare a better answer to this one if situation permits.)

Originally posted by amature historian


d.  7 was a symbolic number in the past (7 days of the week, for example), to it is not surprising that there could be more than one famine lasting "7 years".  


This is not valid because otherwise you can just dismiss anything as "possibly" "just symbolic". We find a exact match and they/you can just dismiss it as oh its only possibly symbolic? Wehave proven exact matches; they have not and can not prove it is just symbolic (they can only claim oh it could just be symbolic). Was the 6 day war and many other just symbolic?

Originally posted by amature historian


and so on.  Your analogy of Khufu to Jacob  requires ignoring much of what the bible actually says.  Now traditonal Egyptian dating may be off, but it seems quite a stretch to equate Khufu with Jacob.


I have not "ignored" anything the bible says, I just looked objectively and thoroughly to see if there was any quality real historical match (without bending/twisting/ignoring either bible or history).
There is nothing that can disprove because i am certain from the evidences i have seen that it is not wrong. Yes there may perhaps be alot of things like you wrote that people require us to explain before they are willing to accept it (I don't deny maybe we need to explain alot more than we have usually done, but it is not easy in such bad situation as we are in).
And really why bother? Every time i have gone to extreme hell efforts to write up a better paper on any of our discoveries they still just ignore. See the Arthur's battle and the Atlantis threads for example. If i had known before the things i needed to write about i would have. But not until people put their criticisms do we know what things they need to know. (Why in last 10years is it i never get replies to have to answer except at times when i need/want to try stay offline more?)


You made some valid points, and your ideas aren't as far fetch as I thought. 

And don't give up - it takes time to overcome traditional views, people won't instantly change their minds, but if you keep at it, you can sometimes change people minds.  


Still a little skeptical, though.  While your argument is not contrary to anything specific in the bible, I will now grant you, it still doesn't seem to match the impression I get from reading it.  The Bible makes it clear Jacob and Joseph were not Egyptians, and it is hard to see Jacob becoming the ruler of a Egypt without a major army behind him, and I don't see the Bible mentioning a large army behind Jacob, not large enough to conqueror Egypt.  But simply because the Bible didn't specifically mention this army, doesn't mean there wasn't one either, that is true.



Edited by amature historian - 20-Aug-2017 at 22:13
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2017 at 06:20
Originally posted by amature historian


You made some valid points, and your ideas aren't as far fetch as I thought. 

And don't give up - it takes time to overcome traditional views, people won't instantly change their minds, but if you keep at it, you can sometimes change people minds.  


Wow thanks heaps for that. I'll try my best. You have posted some good points too.

Originally posted by amature historian


Still a little skeptical, though.  While your argument is not contrary to anything specific in the bible, I will now grant you, it still doesn't seem to match the impression I get from reading it.  The Bible makes it clear Jacob and Joseph were not Egyptians, and it is hard to see Jacob becoming the ruler of a Egypt without a major army behind him, and I don't see the Bible mentioning a large army behind Jacob, not large enough to conqueror Egypt.  But simply because the Bible didn't specifically mention this army, doesn't mean there wasn't one either, that is true.


Ill try to arrange some better answers (than the partial ones below) to your points if/when i am able. May take some time since my life is terribly stressed/pressured.
Perhaps the only way to do it is to post quotes from the bible and post matches from Egyptian history?
Herodotus etc imply that the 4th dynasty pyrmaid builders were not Egyptians. The Egyptians hated the pyramid builders. The shepherd Philitis who dwelt at Giza then. Also pictures of the 4th dyn "pharaoh's" possibly now look not as Egyptian as we had before assumed?
Joseph seems to have become pretty Egyptian like in the Genesis text?
The mummy of Menkaure/Mycerinus [Manasseh?] is still missing.
Joseph was 2nd ruler of Egypt and he had all that power (army).
It is not necessarily definite that Khufu/Cheops was really pharoah of Egypt. The idea that seemed to be suggested to me from the findings so far is that it was some sort of more peaceful alliance succession with Joseph & his sons as the main reason.
Anyway i'll see if doing quotes is possible.

It is wrong/evil/slavery that i am being Forced (no equal options choice) by the elite authorities & my disadvantaged situation to eat (lots of) Fluoridated (etc) water every meal (grains) every day.
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