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Is the Egyptian word NTR(god) from Nut/Neith + Ra?

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Poll Question: What is the origin of the Egyptian term for god, NTR?
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is the Egyptian word NTR(god) from Nut/Neith + Ra?
    Posted: 11-Aug-2016 at 19:24
Originally posted by rakovsky

If you are interested in the theory of ancient Advanced technology, in the Americas, it seems to me that Norte Chico and Puma Punku are key places to look. It is fascinating to me that Peruvian society in the Norte Chico region began to build its neolithic structures, maybe including pyramids and temples, in 4000-2500 BC, the same era when Egyptian society was emerging as a literate neolithic civilization.



Yup 40 plus years ago I was interested....long before neo revisionists or unqualified and trained novices and theorists were promulgating various theorems. Or banding about theories of alien influences. None of which is to say I reject out of hand or.... the possibility of diffusion and or assimilation thru exploration and communication, exchanges of culture etc.

Even given the technical capabilities and abilities to promote such exchange as recognized and accepted by mainstream academia today...of the contextual eras in question.



I'm no longer interested in it.

But I am in whether or not I catch some nice brown trout tomorrow.

So carry on admirably but I am finished here.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 11-Aug-2016 at 19:25
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2016 at 19:17
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

Your asking the wrong person the question you pose. Ask the originator of the claim.

Or you might query: Diane Joyce Humetewa. She is a United States District Judge of the United States District Court for the District of Arizona.

Otoh, 'oral tradition' and cultural development history as maintained by the former should not be immediately discounted. Tho the 'method' teaches us that we should seek contextual primary evidentiary sources that can be confirmed as consistent with others wherever possible... in many cases they must include oral. As there may be insufficient direct primary to verify.

Which is to say, and it's my final word on this matter, countless Hopi believe what has been asserted.

Stay inquisitive.


And I failed to remember to add... that if you discount oral traditions and the beliefs of thousands as adequate academic sources or proofs....that...remains your prerogative. But just as easily as you might reject that or them...they will do the same to you.
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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2016 at 01:16
If you are interested in the theory of ancient Advanced technology, in the Americas, it seems to me that Norte Chico and Puma Punku are key places to look. It is fascinating to me that Peruvian society in the Norte Chico region began to build its neolithic structures, maybe including pyramids and temples, in 4000-2500 BC, the same era when Egyptian society was emerging as a literate neolithic civilization.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2016 at 22:25
Your asking the wrong person the question you pose. Ask the originator of the claim.

Or you might query: Diane Joyce Humetewa. She is a United States District Judge of the United States District Court for the District of Arizona.

Otoh, 'oral tradition' and cultural development history as maintained by the former should not be immediately discounted. Tho the 'method' teaches us that we should seek contextual primary evidentiary sources that can be confirmed as consistent with others wherever possible... in many cases they must include oral. As there may be insufficient direct primary to verify.

Which is to say, and it's my final word on this matter, countless Hopi believe what has been asserted.

Stay inquisitive.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 10-Aug-2016 at 22:27
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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2016 at 19:21
  • "Been teaching and have taught at various academic levels that the "Burden of Proof" rule of reason is a staple. However at this point it's been made clear by the original initiator of the claim."

Does merely asserting "In their language Annu means Ant and Naki means friend, Ant Friends. " meet a reasonable burden of proving that Anu Naki means Ant People?

If so, how?




Edited by rakovsky - 10-Aug-2016 at 19:25
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2016 at 02:24
Originally posted by rakovsky


Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

I provided you an excellent link. You want more than that do as it suggest.

I'm not in the habit of doing this for anybody gratis.

You want that then expect to be billed for personal service rendered.

That link might well lead you to academic sources of verification of the type you require. You decide.
If someone is making the claim that either Ant Friends or Ant People in Hopi language is Anu Naki, then the burden is on him/her, the claimant, to provide sufficiently authoritative evidence to prove his/her claim to a reasonable degree.


Yup I'm aware of all that. Been teaching and have taught at various academic levels that the "Burden of Proof" rule of reason is a staple. However at this point it's been made clear by the original initiator of the claim. He didn't have the time presently to find an academic source that might still not meet with your concurrence or approval.

Consequently the advice rendered previous still stands.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 23:29
Here is what I found:
Anu = Red Ant

...
The 12 phratries and their dependent clans as represented in the East Mesa villages are as follows:

1. Ala-Lengya ( Horn-flute) phratry: Ala (Horn), Pangwa (Mountain sheep), Sowiinwa (Deer), Chubio (Antelope ), Chaizra ( Elk), Lehu (Seed grass), Shiwanu (Ant), Anu (Red-ant), Tokoamu (Black-ant), Wukoanu (Great-ant) Leliotu (Tiny-ant), Shakwalengya (Blue flute), Masilengya (Drab or All-colors flute).

Naki = Want - See also Neki = Think - From Uto Azetecan root words.

Consequently, what we have (thus far) for a genuine transliteration in regard to the Hopi "Anu Naki" are the terms: Red Ant, Want or Think, which still cannot be qualified as meaning the phrase Ant Friends, yet.

http://lunaticoutpost.com/archive/index.php?thread-520671-3.html
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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 23:19
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

I provided you an excellent link. You want more than that do as it suggest.

I'm not in the habit of doing this for anybody gratis.

You want that then expect to be billed for personal service rendered.

That link might well lead you to academic sources of verification of the type you require. You decide.

If someone is making the claim that either Ant Friends or Ant People in Hopi language is Anu Naki, then the burden is on him/her, the claimant, to provide sufficiently authoritative evidence to prove his/her claim to a reasonable degree.


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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 21:52
I provided you an excellent link. You want more than that do as it suggest.

I'm not in the habit of doing this for anybody gratis.

You want that then expect to be billed for personal service rendered.

That link might well lead you to academic sources of verification of the type you require. You decide.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 09-Aug-2016 at 21:54
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 20:05
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

http://www.hopi-nsn.gov/

Under 'Contact'.. direct your research thru the Office of the Chairman and or Director of Education for additional information..sources..links that verify this well known traditional cultural identification,

A claim I've read is that the word Ant is Anu and the word Friends is Naki, so Ant Friends is Anu Naki. But I didn't read it in scholarship.
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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 19:59
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin

I don't think neter can be Nut + Ra. Not saying more on here but you [Rakovsly] can discuss it in p.m. or anywhere else if wish.

Arthur,

Don't feel bad about posting here or discussing with opposite POVs. I can see several different theories. Some I have come across among Egyptologists:
NTR = birthing, giving life. (Like Natalis in Latin, or Nurture in English)
NTR = Nature, element, principle (Like Natura in Latin)
NTR = purifying (Like Natron in Latin and in Egyptian)
NTR = something high up (like the "God most High" in the Old Testament)

That NTR is related to the goddesses Nut("sky/heavens" that has the heavenly waters)/Nunet(heavenly "waters")/Neith(who is the unseen heavens and the heavenly waters) is my own theory. For example, the gods are often equated with the stars in Egyptian myths. And the stars themselves are celestial and heavenly. When the blessed dead die, they go to heaven and become "neteru" (gods, plural of NTRU). So this means they are heavenly too in a sense. Copts dropped the R in NTR and called it Noute, which reminds me of Nut (heavens, pronounced Newt). It's as if the R was not essential and they associated NTR most with Nut, the heavens.

The best avenue for more exploration of the subject I see would be to see what words in the related Chadic/Cush-ite, and Berber languages have NTR, mean "God", or mean any of those five things and also have NT in them or mean "god".


Edited by rakovsky - 09-Aug-2016 at 20:00
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 16:45
I don't think neter can be Nut + Ra. Not saying more on here but you [Rakovsly] can discuss it in p.m. or anywhere else if wish.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 16:21
http://www.hopi-nsn.gov/

Under 'Contact'.. direct your research thru the Office of the Chairman and or Director of Education for additional information..sources..links that verify this well known traditional cultural identification,
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 14:34
Originally posted by red clay

The Hopi legends state that the "ant people" came and took them underground to survive some global disaster.

If you need further info, google it. This isn't new or unknown folklore.

Red Clay,

I googled it and found that Hopi legends talk about the Ant People helping them. What I didn't find though is a claim in an academic scholarly authoritative source (eg. peer reviewed journal, dictionary, or for that matter Hopi website) saying that Ant People = "Annunaki" in Hopi.

I did find New Age-type website claiming that, and even one website claiming that the Hopi word was Anasazi (a word that actually means enemies' ancestors).
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 12:05
The Hopi legends state that the "ant people" came and took them underground to survive some global disaster.

If you need further info, google it. This isn't new or unknown folklore.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 12:00
On the subject of the poll, it's never happened before. I'm looking for a glitch now.
Our software is old and creaky, glitches are not unexpected.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 09:34
Originally posted by rakovsky


Originally posted by red clay

In their language Annu means Ant and Naki means friend, Ant Friends.
Red Clay,That sounds neat, but would you be able to confirm that with a scholarly source?I looked up person and people in a Hopi dictionary, and all I found was that person is "<strong =" phr">himösino"



I probably could, if I had time. However I thought that was a common historical fact.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 01:05
Read Origins of Language  better!Be persistent and more it comes it is better.How word=sentence sounds is the rule:
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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 00:57
Originally posted by medenaywe

Egyptians spoke like that Rakovsky in 196 B.C.They spoke with language where voices&syllables were words!


So what were they doing in the centuries leading up to 196 BC to make language?

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  Quote rakovsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2016 at 00:55
Originally posted by red clay

In their language Annu means Ant and Naki means friend, Ant Friends.


Red Clay,

That sounds neat, but would you be able to confirm that with a scholarly source?

I looked up person and people in a Hopi dictionary, and all I found was that person is "himösino"
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