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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: US elections, Donald Trump
    Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 16:13
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

I'm sorry, Mosquito, but exactly how I'm I supposed to tell the difference between the dirt scumbag nazi/neo-Nazi goons and their idiotic rhetoric and your rhetoric.


Because what Im saying is not a "rhetoric" but plain facts and they can be verified.


Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

I'm at a loss, Mosquito, as to your meaning behind highlighting an ethnicity's religion. What exactly are you saying these people are doing, and what proof do you have that proves without a shadow of a doubt they have committed such acts?


Somtimes religion is equal to ethnicity. Why do you cant apply for the citisenship in Israel? Because to do it you must be a Jew. Doesnt matter where from, USA, Russia, Poland or Germany but you must be a Jew. Your ancestors can even live for 200 years in USA or for 700 in Poland and have no connection to the state of Israel but as long as you are a Jew, you will recive citisenship there.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Btw there's quite a difference between admitting and confirming, Mosquito. When you suggest "admitting" that applies there had been wrongdoing, which you have yet to prove even in the most minute fashion. Confirming information which was already a matter of public knowledge is what you were looking for for further reference.


Thank you for clarification. I always try to improve my english and right now disscussing on such forums is the only way I can practice it.


Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

As for you trying, and may I say failing, to slur the Bielski Brother, that is already a very well know far-right conspiracy and slur which some tried to exploit just over a decade ago when someone said they believed they might have seen Bielski partisans with the Russian partisans in connection with the attack. Some others also came forward and said some looked like they were the Jewish partisans. All said there wasn't a belief Tuvia and his brothers were there. However the lies ar easy unravelled, Mosquito, and I once again say to you should distance yourself from the dirty scumbag far-right brainless goons. Three things about the claim. First, it is very plain from looking at photos of the partisans both Russian and Polish of that time, they looked remarkably similar, and that included the Polish Jewish partisans too. Second, the attack took place at night when it would have been even less likely to distinguish differences. Thirdly, and this is the critical evidence, the Bielski brothers and the Bielski partisans didn't even arrive in that area for another three months


You are talking now about Naliboki massacre. Actually the part of Bielski's partisants wasnt positively for them verified. What is known for sure is that they together with Soviets did attack Polish Home Army forces and it is well verified. And several survivors witnessed that there were Bielski's partisans during massacre.

As for the Jewish question. The Jews lived in my country much longer than USA exists, for over 700 years in big numbers and even longer in smaller communities. I dont talk about things I know nothing about. There were some great Jews in my country, some very patriotic Poles of Jewish descent but there were also some bad guys and even evil, as evil as the nazists themselves.

For example - and this is not "a far right invention" which cannot be verified but you wont learn about it in the USA - after WW2 when F.D. Roosvelt sold Poland to Soviets in Yalta, Poland was ruled mostly by the criminal band of Jews. They tortured, send to Siberia and murdered hundrieds thousands of my countrymen and also members of some other nations. Today most of them is dead already. Poland tried to judge some remaining but they escaped either to Israel, USA or UK and those countries refused to give those murderers back to Poland claiming that they cant have a fair trial here. I think the best example is infamous mass-murderer Salomon Morel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Morel

During Stalinist period in communist Poland the goverment and apparatus of terror was run by Polish Jews. They were so ashamed that there are so few Poles between them that many of them even changed surnames for Polish. Want examples? To name the few who got their biographies in english:

Julia Brystygier, nicknamed "Bloody Luna" a sadist Jewish woman who was personally torturing people, especially their genitals. In the instruction to her subordinates she did write:

"In fact, the Polish intelligentsia as such is against the Communist system and basically, it is impossible to re-educate it. All that remains is to liquidate it. However, since we must not repeat the mistake of the Russians after the 1917 revolution, when all intelligentsia members were exterminated, and the country did not develop correctly afterwards, we have to create such a system of terror and pressure that the members of the intelligentsia would not dare to be politically active"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Brystiger

Roman Romkowski - real name Natan Grünspan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Romkowski


Józef Różański- real name Josek Goldberg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_R%C3%B3%C5%BCa%C5%84ski


Anatol Fejgn - famous torturer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatol_Fejgin

Józef Światło - real name Izaak Fleischfarb - famous torturer and murderer who later escaped to the USA and lived there well until his death. "United States gave him political asylum with the full knowledge that "he would have to be protected for the rest of his life because the number of his victims and relatives of victims sworn to exact retribution was so great."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_%C5%9Awiat%C5%82o




Edited by Mosquito - 10-Apr-2016 at 17:50
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 18:02
As for the brothers Bielski finally it is worth to add that they were also almost always drunk, bandits who raped many women and murdered many men. You can find such statements in the testimonies of Jewish survivors from their own band. Including description of murders. For example Leslie Bell,from New York, who described it in „Jewish Press”, daughter of one of survivors.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 18:36
Originally posted by Mosquito

As for the brothers Bielski finally it is worth to add that they were also almost always drunk, bandits who raped many women and murdered many men. You can find such statements in the testimonies of Jewish survivors from their own band. Including description of murders. For example Leslie Bell,from New York, who described it in „Jewish Press”, daughter of one of survivors.

As you've found such evidence we expect an url link for us to verify if you don't mind, Mosquito.

 
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 19:18
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

As you've found such evidence we expect an url link for us to verify if you don't mind, Mosquito.


Im basing my claims on the work of Polish historian Piotr Zychowicz. However after very short googling I found:

"Lola had also witnessed the shooting of a Jewish partisan by Tuvia in the forest. And then there was the matter, mentioned earlier, of Yehuda’s dead teenage sister back in Novogrudek. According to Yehuda and the letter his father sent to his three sons in New York, Tuvia was involved in that heinous incident. So Lola and her family remained aloof, and contact was kept to a minimum in Israel and later in America."

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/front-page/the-cousins-bielski/2008/11/19/

Edited by Mosquito - 10-Apr-2016 at 19:18
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 19:27

Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

I'm sorry, Mosquito, but exactly how I'm I supposed to tell the difference between the dirt scumbag nazi/neo-Nazi goons and their idiotic rhetoric and your rhetoric.


Because what Im saying is not a "rhetoric" but plain facts and they can be verified.
 


Mosquito, you have attempted to suggest hidden motives time and again, and not just on this thread but on others against people from certain ethnic groups. On its own to call it rhetoric. However my case to do so is strongly bolstered by the fact that at times you have been shown to use questionable material. Hardly “facts” or verifiable when you think about it are they, Mosquito?


Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

I'm at a loss, Mosquito, as to your meaning behind highlighting an ethnicity's religion. What exactly are you saying these people are doing, and what proof do you have that proves without a shadow of a doubt they have committed such acts?


Somtimes religion is equal to ethnicity...etc...etc...etc...


Yawn! Irrelevant, Mosquito, religion is always equal to ethnicity, but in no way does this answer my question as to why you're highlighting the issue of religion/ethnicity as an adjective for the purposes of this thread. So answer me, Mosquito, why?

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 19:37
I was talking about US elections and D. Trump. You are now talking about completely different things.

However when I was looking more on Bielski brother I found interesting article about one of the brothers, who didnt change much since the times he was living in the forest:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-495420/Jewish-hero-rescued-Jews-Nazis-charged-conning-Holocaust-survivor.html
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 19:45
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

but in no way does this answer my question as to why you're highlighting the issue of religion/ethnicity as an adjective for the purposes of this thread. So answer me, Mosquito, why?


Because there was always a group of Jewish citisens in every country where they lived who were a separate nation within a host nation. And they always cared for their interests more than for the interests of their countries. Their religion teach them to treat their people in better way than other people who can be exploited by them. Thats why they influenced US goverment to give them huge bailouts at the expense of American tax payers.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 19:49
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

but in no way does this answer my question as to why you're highlighting the issue of religion/ethnicity as an adjective for the purposes of this thread. So answer me, Mosquito, why?


Because there was always a group of Jewish citisens in every country where they lived who were a separate nation within a host nation. And they always cared for their interests more than for the interests of their countries. Their religion teach them to treat their people in better way than other people who can be exploited by them. Thats why they influenced US goverment to give them huge bailouts at the expense of American tax payers.

Mosquito, if you're in any way intelligent enough to prove such a claim then do so! I await your proof.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:04
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

As you've found such evidence we expect an url link for us to verify if you don't mind, Mosquito.


Im basing my claims on the work of Polish historian Piotr Zychowicz. However after very short googling I found:

"Lola had also witnessed the shooting of a Jewish partisan by Tuvia in the forest. And then there was the matter, mentioned earlier, of Yehuda’s dead teenage sister back in Novogrudek. According to Yehuda and the letter his father sent to his three sons in New York, Tuvia was involved in that heinous incident. So Lola and her family remained aloof, and contact was kept to a minimum in Israel and later in America."

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/front-page/the-cousins-bielski/2008/11/19/

In what way has this to do with what you were suggesting, Mosquito?
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:06
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loans_and_interest_in_Judaism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking#Judaism

"The Torah and later sections of the Hebrew Bible criticize interest-taking, but interpretations of the Biblical prohibition vary. One common understanding is that Jews are forbidden to charge interest upon loans made to other Jews, but obliged to charge interest on transactions with non-Jews, or Gentiles.

Israelites were forbidden to charge interest on loans made to other Israelites, but allowed to charge interest on transactions with non-Israelites.... "

Edited by Mosquito - 10-Apr-2016 at 20:14
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:11
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

In what way has this to do with what you were suggesting, Mosquito?


Yehuda Bielski after coming to Israel broke relations with Tuvie Bielski and Bro's because Tuvie murdered Jewish partisant and also was somehow involved in "heinous incident" in which died Yehuda's sister.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:16

Originally posted by Mosquito

During Stalinist period in communist Poland the goverment and apparatus of terror was run by Polish Jews. They were so ashamed that there are so few Poles between them that many of them even changed surnames for Polish.


Not exactly true is it though, Mosquito? Again you're caught out trying to twist facts to suit your case. In 1945 due to many attacks on ethnic groups including those with German or Jewish names, because of the war and false claims of property reclamation the Polish National Council issued a name change decree in order to reduce these racial attacks. Millions of people changed their names. 

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:24
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Not exactly true is it though, Mosquito? Again you're caught out trying to twist facts to suit your case. In 1945 due to many attacks on ethnic groups including those with German or Jewish names, because of the war and false claims of property reclamation the Polish National Council issued a name change decree in order to reduce these racial attacks. Millions of people changed their names.


Attacks on them? Stalinist officials who were terrorising the whole country? Those Jews from Security Services who tortured, imprisoned and killed hundrieds thousands of people were afraid so much because had Jewish names?
Natan Grünspan changed his name because lived in fear?
The fact that commies who were going to rule Poland had mostly not Polish names had nothing to do with it?

Edited by Mosquito - 10-Apr-2016 at 20:26
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:35
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

In what way has this to do with what you were suggesting, Mosquito?


Yehuda Bielski after coming to Israel broke relations with Tuvie Bielski and Bro's because Tuvie murdered Jewish partisant and also was somehow involved in "heinous incident" in which died Yehuda's sister.
Zus also killed one of his own officers for not going back for one of the people they were meant to save. My guess Yehuda disagreed with such tactics. Personally, I'm with Yehuda on that one. As for the "incident" involving their sister, it doesn't say what happened. It's hard to comment without reasonable evidence.
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:42
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Mosquito

Yehuda Bielski after coming to Israel broke relations with Tuvie Bielski and Bro's because Tuvie murdered Jewish partisant and also was somehow involved in "heinous incident" in which died Yehuda's sister.
Zus also killed one of his own officers for not going back for one of the people they were meant to save. My guess Yehuda disagreed with such tactics. Personally, I'm with Yehuda on that one. As for the "incident" involving their sister, it doesn't say what happened. It's hard to comment without reasonable evidence.


All women which wanted to be "saved" by Bielski brothers had to show themselves naked in front of all them. Then they were picking the best looking ones and forcing them to sex. Tuvie has already created a big harem for himself. Those who refused were being raped, especialy when Tuvie and his officers were drunk and they were drunk almost every night. Thats the story which wasnt in Hollywood movie.

Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 10-Apr-2016 at 20:53
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:50
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Not exactly true is it though, Mosquito? Again you're caught out trying to twist facts to suit your case. In 1945 due to many attacks on ethnic groups including those with German or Jewish names, because of the war and false claims of property reclamation the Polish National Council issued a name change decree in order to reduce these racial attacks. Millions of people changed their names.


Attacks on them? Stalinist officials who were terrorising the whole country? Those Jews from Security Services who tortured, imprisoned and killed hundrieds thousands of people were afraid so much because had Jewish names?
Natan Grünspan changed his name because lived in fear?
The fact that commies who were going to rule Poland had mostly not Polish names had nothing to do with it?

2.6 million Polish Jews changed their names! How on Earth can you claim they changed their names because they were so few? Rediculous! Attacks on them yes, and well documented by the same historian you quoted earlier amongst many with an upper estimate of 2000 Jewish fatalities at the time. The Polish Jewish names you quoted are all detestable creatures for sure, but you're not telling me they were the only Polish nationals involved with the soviet regime, and yet you would rather point the finger at other ethnic groups than look at your own and ponder their motivations.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2016 at 20:58
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Mosquito

Yehuda Bielski after coming to Israel broke relations with Tuvie Bielski and Bro's because Tuvie murdered Jewish partisant and also was somehow involved in "heinous incident" in which died Yehuda's sister.
Zus also killed one of his own officers for not going back for one of the people they were meant to save. My guess Yehuda disagreed with such tactics. Personally, I'm with Yehuda on that one. As for the "incident" involving their sister, it doesn't say what happened. It's hard to comment without reasonable evidence.


All women which wanted to be "saved" by Bielski brothers had to show themselves naked in front of all them. Then they were picking the best looking ones and forcing them to sex. Tuvie has already created a big harem for himself. Those who refused were being raped, especialy when Tuvie and his officers were drunk and they were drunk almost every night. Thats the story which wasnt in Hollywood movie.

Again please, Mosquito, your links as confirmation. What I have heard of Tuvia, to the consternation of his wife, was he was very much the lady's man with a huge number of non Jewish Polish women lining up for a good bit of this heroic figure. 
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2016 at 06:07
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Again please, Mosquito, your links as confirmation. What I have heard of Tuvia, to the consternation of his wife, was he was very much the lady's man with a huge number of non Jewish Polish women lining up for a good bit of this heroic figure.


https://stopsyjonizmowi.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/bielski-pomagac3a9-c2acydom-ale-te-z-ich-wykorzystywac3a9.pdf

EG - survivor from Bielski's camp, Jozef Marchwiński writes that ( he wrote in Polish, I have translated it myself into english):

"Tuvia Bielski managed not only all the Jews in the camp, but also quite numerous and lovely harem - like King Saud of Saudi Arabia (...) a large group of beautiful women constantly surrounded Tevia Bielski and his brothers. Beauties which didnt know the hunger.They were always beautifully dressed and on their hands and necks were glowing expensive jewels and gems, their white hands didnt know the work."

According to Leslie Bell, her mother Lola, wife of Yehuda Bielski, cousin of brothers Bielski, like all the women who were coming to the camp, had to take part in dissgusting ritual, undress in the front of all the men and give them her underwear.


As for the reasons why the family of Yehuda broke relations with Bielski's brother, I found explanation in the above article. It seems that Tuvie has killed Yehuda's sister, long before the war.

It doesnt mean that Tuvia wasnt a hero. He did save 1200 people. But during the war the people were not always definately evil or good, some were in between. Tuvia did help many people to survive but also exploited them. He also took part in actions against Polish Home Army, together with his Soviet firends, with whom he was also drinking a lot and Soviets valued Tuvia for being able to drink more than most of them.


Edited by Mosquito - 11-Apr-2016 at 06:34
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2016 at 15:23
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Again please, Mosquito, your links as confirmation. What I have heard of Tuvia, to the consternation of his wife, was he was very much the lady's man with a huge number of non Jewish Polish women lining up for a good bit of this heroic figure.


https://stopsyjonizmowi.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/bielski-pomagac3a9-c2acydom-ale-te-z-ich-wykorzystywac3a9.pdf

EG - survivor from Bielski's camp, Jozef Marchwiński writes that ( he wrote in Polish, I have translated it myself into english):

"Tuvia Bielski managed not only all the Jews in the camp, but also quite numerous and lovely harem - like King Saud of Saudi Arabia (...) a large group of beautiful women constantly surrounded Tevia Bielski and his brothers. Beauties which didnt know the hunger.They were always beautifully dressed and on their hands and necks were glowing expensive jewels and gems, their white hands didnt know the work."

According to Leslie Bell, her mother Lola, wife of Yehuda Bielski, cousin of brothers Bielski, like all the women who were coming to the camp, had to take part in dissgusting ritual, undress in the front of all the men and give them her underwear.


As for the reasons why the family of Yehuda broke relations with Bielski's brother, I found explanation in the above article. It seems that Tuvie has killed Yehuda's sister, long before the war.

It doesnt mean that Tuvia wasnt a hero. He did save 1200 people. But during the war the people were not always definately evil or good, some were in between. Tuvia did help many people to survive but also exploited them. He also took part in actions against Polish Home Army, together with his Soviet firends, with whom he was also drinking a lot and Soviets valued Tuvia for being able to drink more than most of them.

Must I tell you again, Mosquito, really??? If I tell you your link is to a site who are anti-Semitic Holocaust-denying New World Order conspiracy theorists, does that sound like a reliable source in any way or form?
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2016 at 16:06
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Must I tell you again, Mosquito, really??? If I tell you your link is to a site who are anti-Semitic Holocaust-denying New World Order conspiracy theorists, does that sound like a reliable source in any way or form?


I dont care for the site. In this case they have used the article of the historian whom I know and who is reliable. I have partly confirmed his claim by the article in Jewish Press which I have found and post the link here. The fact that someone who is not reliable is using materials of someone who is reliable, when it fits to his theories, doesnt make the second one not reliable. In the article the author gives names and also tells where are the documents which he has used.

Piotr Zychowicz is a young famous in Poland historian of the new generation, known for writing controversial books. He has written several bestsellers including: "Madness 44" about Warsaw Rising, criticising Polish underground for starting uprising, "Ribbentrop-Back Pact" - in which he describes Polish - German relations between 1919 and 1939, suggesting that Poland should have joined 3rd Reich instead of fighting against it and after USA joined the war it should have betray Germany and change sides. And "Pilsudski-Lenin Pact or how the Poles saved bolsheviks" - which criticise Polish goverment for signing peace with Soviet Russia in 1921.







Edited by Mosquito - 11-Apr-2016 at 16:48
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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