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The legend of Queen Zenobia and Queen Māwiyya

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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The legend of Queen Zenobia and Queen Māwiyya
    Posted: 09-Nov-2015 at 07:07
Of courese , before the rise of Islam, the Arabian had challenged the Roman Empire for several times , Queen Zenobia and Queen Māwiyya and their soldiers crushed the mighty Roman army for several times,they even occupied part of Egypt, but they kingdoms were just oasis state, finally they were defeated and captured by the Romans,

But would their legend live on , through the saga and poems, the descendants would still remember them, would the Prophet and his followers receive encouragement from their legend, so the Muslim would recognize themselves as the successors of the queens, to rebuild the Arabian empire, to take a political revenge for the two queens , this meant the queens'legend would have a positive influence on the rise of the great Arabian empire. just like in the chinese history, the legend of the Taiping rebellion would haVE a positive influence on Dr SUN, Marshall Cheung, and Chairman mao, they also believed that they would continue the revolution of the Taiping KingdOm?
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2015 at 13:36
''But would their legend live on , through the saga and poems, the descendants would still remember them''

As for this...apparently so...you are discussing them.

''would the Prophet and his followers receive encouragement from their legend, so the Muslim would recognize themselves as the successors of the queens, to rebuild the Arabian empire, to take a political revenge for the two queens , this meant the queens'legend would have a positive influence on the rise of the great Arabian empire.''

As for the latter....more problematic if not rejected. For in all my long years of studying the region and it's cultures; I have yet to hear an Islamist 'praise' Zenobia'...and never before Mohammed.

So the question must be presented to them...and all the while understanding context and era.

Iow....it's doubtful afaic.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2015 at 06:08
Please read the following article

"Demonizing Zenobia: The Legend of al-Zabba' in Islamic Sources," in Histories of the MIddle East: Studies in Middle Eastern Society, Economy and Law in Honor of A.L. Udovitch (Brill 2011), 127-182.
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2015 at 15:58
A well written and researched essay.

But it does little to relieve my concerns...As the author...I'm more likely to adhere to a necessity for a Muslim revisionist interpretations based on particles of historical fact intertwined or conjoined...thru familiar identities/identification with the queen..resulting in her later 'transformation' into a Muslim heroine vis a vis a literary fantasy device.

My Muslim friends, who know of her, still do not 'praise' her...as certain Muslims might praise Maryām...or Khadija...Aisha. Nor do they necessarily feel she was of a significant influence in or on the development of Islam. As a matter of fact they merely believe what I've addressed above.

But it's interesting and I thank you for your contribution.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 28-Nov-2015 at 16:06
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2015 at 01:39
Of course , in the pure religious aspect, the queen would not have any positive influence on the development of Islam, but at the political aspect, the situation might be different, the main possibility was that prophet and his followers, as the political-military leaders and patriots of the Arabian people, might receive encouragement from the legend of the Queen, as she challenged and even defeated the Roman army, so the Muslim leaders (or more clearly, the Arabian leaders, or even their soldiers) would receive political and military encouragement, and they would rise up and challenge the Roman Empire( Byzantine Empire ) again , because the legend of the queen proved that the Roman Empire was not invincible , so they had the courage to fight the Roman again, only this time, the Arabian people should unite together, into one nation ,they would have the power to do so, since the Queen only ruled a oasis nation, but she could still crush the Romans for several times.


''Through our kingdom passed away
It will live again another day"

The poem of Hong Rengan , prince Gang of the Taiping Heavenly kingdom, he wrote down these sentences before his execution . And later Dr Sun was inspired by the legend of the Taiping, so he rose up to overthrow the Manchus dynasty.

Queen Zenobia might have the same feeling, when she was captured by the Romans, and she also produced the similar historical influence on the rise of the Arabian empire
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2015 at 18:00
Possible but I need more evidence suggesting just that.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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