Obama's Executive Order on Emmigration

What do you think? Should the illegals be pardoned and become legal?
I used to think - no, it is not fair to reward breaking the law of the country you want to be part of with getting your way...but I start thinking - if they become legal, they will have to pay taxes, like the rest of us/ From practical POV, this is something to consider.

No.

What has often occurred.

A shift in balance of one of the three which historically is identified as a threat to the other two.

I'll give you an example though it has been seriously challenged and often bitterly debated.

The President has many powers enumerated but the chief of these..are

1. his authority as CoC of the Armed Forces and

2. his duty to enforce the public law-s and ensure the national security of the 'state'.

Commensurate then..is his authority as Chief Executive. And those others (powers) enumerated.

Contrary to one's beliefs...however...

he is not the best friend of the citizen body necessarily...

That historically was reserved for the Congress. Because as designed they were elected to their positions by the same...with the primary responsibility of serving the same's economic-social-business-personal welfare. Through their superior power of creating the law-s that the citizenry deemed necessary.

Out in the bushes.... were-are-the press....the '4th estate'...the 'voice' of the people. The Free Press. The watchdogs, in theory, of the three. Whose power was traditionally in voicing either the publics approbation or condemnation.

When any of these... abrogate ANY of the duties and responsibilities, as designed in the USC (or tradition and privilege in the case of the press)... the result is the aforementioned shift.

Especially if the press allows it by either ignoring the issues or denying their existence. Or by endorsing without merit or a willingness to counter the opposition's viewpoint any of the three. Especially when in reality it's an obvious bias in favor of one over the other's.

Such for example is the current case.

If you study enough contextual American history..and I'm sure you have..you will see that this latest challenge is actually nothing new.

In the end the Courts will decide....unfortunately the consequences and social disruption ntl continue.

That's why it's called republic based democracy....it was never perfect. Nor will it ever be....but it beats the shit out the various negative alternatives.

The correct estimate is 15 - 20 million.

Furthermore, entering any nation illegally is a crime under both Federal law and international law.  How can someone become a citizen by breaking the laws of the very nation they sneak into?  And who sorts out the criminals,the narcos and the rest of the undesirable elements?


No amnesty, period.

Originally posted by medenaywe Estimate the contribution of every emmigrant as tax payer people!China is still your competition cause of numbers.Period.

Many of them do not pay taxes - in fact, they get refund checks.

These are the working poor who qualify for every Federal assistance plan Obie has, including  income tax credit to minimum earners.  They cost legitimate taxpayers a fortune in school, medical, food stamp and all other programs for the working poor, and they drive up the costs of all forms of insurance for the legal citizens of America.

As for China, that is a strawman argument that has no place  in this discussion concerning the issue of illegals violating national sovereignty by sneaking into America and bringing crime, corruption, human trafficking and narcotics along with them. 

Do you know what the penalty is for those who enter Mexico illegally?  Prison.

If you like this type of thing so much, take them into your nation and give them a free ride. 


Edited by Mountain Man - 24-Nov-2014 at 13:38

Btw...as noted, while I agree with a solution...post border enhancement. Deferral from deportation is a quasi amnesty..in that the appropriate corrective action ie. prosecution in either criminal or deportation form...is not being made.

Congress has been lapse but the most recent straw that it's their problem entirely is incorrect. Lack of Presidential emphasis during the Obammites two years of party congressional hegemony is also in the mix.

That was for base politics then...it's the same now.


The difference being that the 'scope' of his recent action is far beyond that of his predecessors. With no credible evidence he will not continue to ignore the law for the last two years of his fiasco administration.

The fact that he refused in his first six years to act is the reason behind the impasse as viewed by his opposition.

And whether the liberal likes or not... accepts it or not...there is ntl merit in that position.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 24-Nov-2014 at 21:18

While I agree with MM that is morally wrong to basically reward illegal behavior by granting what they try to obtain in illegal way, those illegal guys won't just vanish into thin air, and somehow the government have to deal with them. It is practically impossible to secure the border, this never works, it didn't work for the communist countries to keep their citizens in either.

And yes, W., there are business interests involved, that is I believe the most important reason why the illegals are here, not some humanitarian reasons. The latter tend to be used as an apology for moneyed interests, which are the real power anyway. However, the illegal emigrants work mostly jobs which American citizens don't want to, that is why there is a niche there. I doubt very much that if by some miracle all of a sudden all Hispanic day laborers vanish their jobs they vacate will be attractive enough for Americans to take them. I watched a video of that , "Farmsville", in which a small entrepreneur complained that he cannot find workers, some young kids tried but lacked work ethics etc, so he prefers to hire illegals who get the job done. Now, if there was a law that whoever hires illegals have to pay their health insurance, and US-appropriate wages maybe things would come out different.

I have never been interested in civics, Centrix, so it is an kind of unclear area for me. The American National Politics class I am about to get done with kinda killed what was left of my illusions about justice on a grand scale, and I probably will end up quite disillusioned. The power of the executive branch has been growing over the years, getting a little bit stronger with every war, declared of not, as implied executive powers become more and more stretched. Yes, Obama's executive decisions are not anything new, and that is what is scary. There is a stable tendency here, not say, some character fault or human mistake.

Edited by Don Quixote - 26-Nov-2014 at 20:29

It's already a "B" nightmare with free zome states and those who will not comply with the existing law...ie. the Obama administration. For this alone he is impeachable.

BTW...Marúawe.

Hope to see more of u. But if not and your merely a spammer in disguise I'll get ya. My apologies if ya not.

CV