Turks,Armenian debate,archives and implication of results

Originally posted by baracuda My great grandfather was the last ottoman pasha stated there, he used to say, that a macedonian would not consider himself neither as a turk, nor a greek, nor a bulgar or a slav....but they will only consider themselves as macedonian... I don't know if they are greeks or not in reality as things change depending on idealogies and politics..

I am sorry , but ur grandfather simply lied ....Cause u see the census done by Hilmi Pasha , in 1906 mentions NO race such as Macedonskis.Of course i dont know why he lied .....but the official Turkish fact remains..

Isk.

Edited by iskenderani

So ..as u see in this older map , no mention of Makedonskies...

And how do u explain the results of the sensus by Hilmi Pasha , in 1906 ??

Isk.

 

And as for dr.Mario...i do have some bad news....from people much more esteemed than him...

 

Fact #1
The inhabitants of The FYROM are mostly Slavs, Bulgarians and Albanians.  They have nothing in common with the ancient Macedonians.  Here are some testimonies from The FYROM�s officials:

a.         &nbs p;         The former President of The FYROM, Kiro Gligorov said:  �We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).

b.         &nbs p;        Also, Mr Gligorov declared:  "We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.  That's who we are!  We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia� Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" (Toronto Star, March 15, 1992).

c.         &nbs p;         On 22 January 1999, Ambassador of the FYROM to USA, Ljubica Achevska gave a speech on the present situation in the Balkans.  In answering questions at the end of her speech Mrs. Acevshka said:  "We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great � Greece is Macedonia�s second largest trading partner, and its number one investor. Instead of opting for war, we have chosen the mediation of the United Nations, with talks on the ambassadorial level under Mr. Vance and Mr. Nemitz."  In reply to another question about the ethnic origin of the people of FYROM, Ambassador Achevska stated that "we are Slavs and we speak a Slav language.�  

d.         &nbs p;        On 24 February 1999, in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM'S Ambassador to Canada, admitted, "We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great.  We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."  He also commented, �There is some confusion about the identity of the people of my country." 

e.         &nbs p;          Moreover, the Foreign Minister of the FYROM, Slobodan Casule, in an interview to Utrinski Vesnik of Skopje on December 29, 2001, said that he mentioned to the Foreign Minister of Bulgaria, Solomon Pasi, that they "belong to the same Slav people.�

*A State Department Letter to Consular Officers of U.S.A

U.S STATE DEPARTMENT
Foreign Relations Vol. VIII
Washington D.C.
Circular Airgram
(868.014/26 Dec. 1944)

The Secretary of State to Certain Diplomatic and Consular Officers*

The following is for your information and general guidance, but not for any positive action at this time.

The Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. "This Government considers talk of Macedonian "nation", Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonia "national consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

The approved policy of this Government is to oppose any revival of the Macedonian issue as related to Greece. The Greek section of Macedonia is largely inhabited by Greeks, and the Greek people are almost unanimously opposed to the creation of a Macedonian state. Allegations of serious Greek participation in any such agitation can be assumed to be false. This Government would regard as responsible any Government or group of Governments tolerating or encouraging menacing or aggressive acts of "Macedonian Forces" against Greece.

The Department would appreciate any information pertinent to this subject which may come to your attention.

Secretary of State
STETTINIUS

The 1992 Top Management Forum Competing in Global Markets

Henry Kissinger

An Analysis of the Global Geopolitical Environment

Management Centre Europe

18-19 June 1992, Paris
2/10/92
This is an abstract of the minutes kept during the annual meeting of Management Centre Europe held in Paris on June. During the questions time at the end of Henry Kissinger's presentation one of the questions was:

"What is your opinion for the problem which Greece have to accept the name Macedonia which the Scopia Government is trying to implement?"
Mr Kissiger asked the man who asked the question:
"Are you Greek ?"
Reply "Yes"
"Look, I believe that Greece is right to object and I agree with Athens. The reason is that I know History which is not the case with most of the others including most of the Government and Administration in Washington.
The strength of the Greek case is that of the History which I must say that Athens have not used so far with success."

 

So...for the moment try to convince the officials of FYROM that Makendoskies exist ... then we can talk more ..

Isk..

 

No, I mean that I have many dated maps from many countries.. that are presently in museums in countries of all over europe.. they should also be a more viable source than US, who has absolutely no say in this..
Im not even talking about greek, nor turkish maps either just to leave things out of discussion..
J

Originally posted by tzar Makednoskata nation is "a child of Serbian propaganda"

 I am curious about that!  does the word Makednoskata has any special meaning in Bulgarian language because as you wrote it, it has a special meaning in Greek and its not a good one !!!

the word skata is used mostly as a insult in greek lang. and has the meaning of sh*t.