Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Zoroaster the Good Shepherd

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
mojobadshah View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382
  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Zoroaster the Good Shepherd
    Posted: 31-Jan-2014 at 20:37
The idea of the Good Shepherd is Zoroastrian: "I have no shepherd other than you: then obtain good pastures for me."  (30)

Anyone know what Zoroastrian passage he's talking about?
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 04:38
Yes! Someone actually sees it! Mithra and Zoroaster and Joshua, etc. are mostly the same!

Ron
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Sidney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 31-Jan-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 690
  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 06:39
To you did the soul of the ox complain,
"For whom did you create me? Who made me?
Fury and violence oppress me, and cruelty and tyranny.
I have no shepherd other than you: then obtain good pastures for me."

Then the Creator of the ox asked Right, "Have you a judge for the ox,
That you may give him, with the pasture, the care for the raising of the cattle?
Whom did you appoint his master who shall put to flight Fury together with the wicked?"

As Righteousness, reply was made, "No companion is there for the ox
That is free from hatred. Men do not understand
How the great deal with the lowly.
Of all beings he is the strongest
To whose aid I come at his call....

"With hands outstreched we pray to the Lord,
We two, my soul and the soul of the mother-cow,
Urging the Wise One to command that no harm shall come to the honest man,
To the herdsman, in the midst of the wicked who surround him."

Then spoke the Wise Lord himself, he who understands the prayers in his soul:
"No master has been found, no judge according to Righteousness,
For the breeder and the herdsman has the Creator fashioned you.

The ordinance of sprinkling the water of the cattle, for the welfare of the ox,
And the milk for the welfare of men desiring food,
This has the Wise Lord, the Holy One,
Fashioned by his decree, in accord with Righteousness."
--"Whom hast thou, as Good Mind, who may take care of us two for men?"

"I know but this one, Zarathustra Spitama, the only one who has heard our teaching;
He will make known our purpose, O Wise One, and that of Righteousness.
Sweetness of speech shall be given to him."

And then moaned the ox-soul: "That I should have to be content
With the powerless word of a man without strength for a guardian,
I who wish for a strong master!
Will he ever be, he who shall help him with his hands?"

Avesta, Yasna 29.1-9

The Avesta identifies the shepherd as the feeder of cattle and milker of cows.
Jesus was portrayed as a rescuer of lost sheep:

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

John 10:11-16

Edited by Sidney - 01-Feb-2014 at 06:45
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 12:26
And then Mithra slit the throat of the OX!

Ron
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
mojobadshah View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382
  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 12:40
I don't think that feeding cattle is the point.  Zarathushtra's cause was that of the husbandman herder and farmer against the cattle raiding nomadic invaders.  He was destined to be the protector of cattle the ox or cow soul Geush Urvan.  I don't see however where "the shepherd" is even mentioned in the above passages.  I do however recall that Yima Khshaeta (Jamsheed) is called "Good Shepherd" several times. 
Back to Top
mojobadshah View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382
  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 12:51
As someone else has put it:

This Saviour is presumably Zarathushtra (cp. 46:3), who is named above (29:8-9) as the caretaker of 'the soul of the Cow', though somewhat powerless. The Cow could be, then, a symbol of the Prophet's cause, the new faith. Or it could be the believers, the new community, seen as cattle in the care of their Pastor (the Prophet), as the Christian flock are sheep in the care of the Good Shepherd (John 10:14).

Back to Top
Sidney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 31-Jan-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 690
  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 16:41
Originally posted by mojobadshah

...I don't see however where "the shepherd" is even mentioned in the above passages.  I do however recall that Yima Khshaeta (Jamsheed) is called "Good Shepherd" several times. 


It's the fourth line.

Edited by Sidney - 01-Feb-2014 at 16:42
Back to Top
Karlaswagnaz View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
  Quote Karlaswagnaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2014 at 15:51
Zarathustra spoke about the cattle, not about people. That's the diference between the Daena Vanguji and the other so called great religions, who see people as cattle. I think Zarathustra was the first ecologist and advocate for science. And he wanted good sheperds, not priests.
Stars die and reborn...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.055 seconds.