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What can you tell me about Armenia?

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  Quote barcelonic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What can you tell me about Armenia?
    Posted: 08-Dec-2013 at 23:32
I'd like to know more about this country starting in ancient times leading up to the 20th century history too (I just figured this section was more relevant as I want to know it all)

So please if you are Armenian or know anything about Armeina of interest please do share it here,

Thanks :)


PS. I'm also interested in learning more about Bulgaria - please PM me with any interesting info you may have on that, thanks again :)
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2013 at 03:06
Armenia has certainly a long history but mostly not an independent history, however Armenians are certainly one of the rare peoples who have preserved their ancient culture, I think one of the main reasons is the early adoption of Christianity.

I have researched about the early history of Armenians, for example in this thread: Armenians, descendants of Sakson, I talked about my theory.
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  Quote barcelonic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2013 at 03:34
thanks ill check that out :)

ye to clarify I mean the region now known as Armenia but throughout all different reigns and border changes etc...
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2013 at 13:11
Originally posted by barcelonic

thanks ill check that out :)

ye to clarify I mean the region now known as Armenia but throughout all different reigns and border changes etc...


So you want to know that region Armenia. Am I right?

but which Armenia? Ancient, Roman, Byzantine, Seljuk, Ottoman, Sovviet, Modern?

This is nice map which shows all Armenia Regions during the history. Wink
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Map_of_Historical_Armenia_by_Britannica_1994.jpg
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  Quote barcelonic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2013 at 15:51
thx Ollios I've just saved that in my map collection :)

Basically ye I am a scholar who's always looking to fill in the gaps in his knowledge and I know so little about Armenia and Bulgaria and want to know everything so if you're expertise is in ancient Armenia then please share some of that or if it is more modern history then that is equally welcome, thanks :)

Edited by barcelonic - 09-Dec-2013 at 16:02
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2013 at 17:04
Originally posted by barcelonic

thx Ollios I've just saved that in my map collection :)

Basically ye I am a scholar who's always looking to fill in the gaps in his knowledge and I know so little about Armenia and Bulgaria and want to know everything so if you're expertise is in ancient Armenia then please share some of that or if it is more modern history then that is equally welcome, thanks :)


I am happy to able to help you. Both countries are our neighbour and also old Ottoman territory so I am also enjoying to do this Big smile First of all let's give up Bulgaria to another topic. Secondly are you interesting Armenian nation history in those land or history of lands

because second option is massive, for example:  Battle of Köse Dağ, it is not relevant with Armenians but this is very important in Turkey history. Also Armenian took the North Mesopotamia and made those land part of great Armenia so are you interesting pre-armenian history of those land?

or first option which is mostly relevant with Armenian nation  
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2013 at 22:17
According to the works of Fomemko, there exist quite a bit of Information!

Regards. Ron
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2013 at 00:51
Originally posted by barcelonic

thanks ill check that out :)

ye to clarify I mean the region now known as Armenia but throughout all different reigns and border changes etc...


Other than Armenians, some other peoples such as Caucasians, Urartians, Cimmerians and Scythians also lived in this region, some believe Proto-Armenians were the same Mushki people who have been mentioned in the Assyrian sources, however Georgians strongly believe they were one of their ancestors who lived in the south Georgia, Moschia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moschia


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  Quote barcelonic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 03:55
@Ollios If I were an Armenian neighbour of yours which events would I consider a part of my history and be proud of? Eg. in the UK the Brits don't hold much nationalist regard for anything Roman but they did rule some of the land here for quite a while. So that's kind of what I'm after. If that Turkish event is considered by Armenians today a part of their history then sure, but more or less what I am interested in mostly is ancient history and the people who lived there 12,000 years ago to be specific when wheat was first cultivated and Gobekli Tepe was built in the region, and also the various tribes & civilisations who've dwelt both North & South of the Caucasus - and also any geopolitical opinions or facts about the way the presence of the mountain range between the seas has shaped the history of Armenia

As for Bulgaria the only thing I know is the river Bulger lol :)
What I'd like to know mostly is...
What do Bulgarians consider themir country best known for?
And what are the biggest Bulgarian exports? What's the GDP like and where does it come from? that sort of thing :)
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 14:03
Originally posted by barcelonic

more or less what I am interested in mostly is ancient history and the people who lived there 12,000 years ago to be specific when wheat was first cultivated and Gobekli Tepe was built in the region,


12000 years ago!!! you are mentioning previous time when Ancient Armenia calls as Armenia

Originally posted by barcelonic


As for Bulgaria the only thing I know is the river Bulger lol :)


Why you need to increace your knowlegde about Bulgaria? and also why Armenia?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

before the start you should accept that term Armenia is relative term. Like in Mosul Question between Britain and new Turkey (who take the North Iraq). If we took it, Mosul would part of Anatolia like all Asian Turkey, but it is not. Calling these land as Armenia is not maths, it is social science, so it can be change by acceptions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Question

Great Armenia has some part of Great Georgia, Great Azerbaijan, Kurdistan and Turkomania. As Macedonia-Greece name problem, this can be problem sometimes.Accutaully, I hate this nationlistic name. The issue could easily turn to facism


Let's start Big smile

According to some theories, Armenia is homeland of Indo-Europeans http://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/IE_homeland_proposals_map.jpg
 
Purple Area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_hypothesis
 
As you know(or not), the Caucausia is home land of G haplogroup(Y-DNA)http://www.thegeneticatlas.com/G.png


The Theories About Armenian

1-They are coming from native landers like Urartians


2-They are coming from Balkans/Phrygia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armeno-Phrygian


Edited by Ollios - 12-Dec-2013 at 14:04
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 14:23
Most of these lands are obsidian source for ancient world.

there are a lot's of all Volcanos like Nemrut (and its crater lake)http://pcdn.500px.net/18247981/e27f1acb60eea5538593f0d85a9fd1c527f1a621/4.jpg


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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2013 at 13:54
Symbols of Armenia

Apricot is important. Its latin name is Prunus armeniaca
http://www.kayisiyagi.gen.tr/images/kayisi1.jpg
There is also film festival in Yerevan(capital of Armenia); Golden Apricot

Mount Ararat is the other symbol. Mount Ararat from the capital of Armenia
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/52697514.jpg
but it is in Turkey. The Mountain is on the middle
http://www.ldt.am/imgs/archive/07260922_.png

A small tip about Armenians

You can ask to any Armenian that which Armenian version are they speaking Eastern or Western.

Western means they are Ottoman Armenian
Eastern means they are Russia-Armenia Armenian


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  Quote barcelonic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2013 at 02:26
Wow thanks Ollios i've saved tall thos pics and maps :)

The haplogroup map seems rather conclusive doesn't it?
I've been reading lately about the various influxes of migrants to ancient N. America and some of the new theories are derived from very strong genetic evidence indeed.

Also the haplogroups of the Malay peoples and the Madagascans are almost identical, giving some new credence to the notion of a sunken continent, 'Kumari Kandam'

You're info has been fantastic. Sadly i guess we'll know little about the constructors of Gobekli Tepe and their lives but before the emerging might of early Russia surely the Caucasus must have proven a dividing factor in Armenian culture at that time? Was life south of the range much different from the North, and has this been a theme throughout pre-Modern history in that region?

Also what can you tell me about the genocide as I'm rather unfamiliar with those events too, much to my embarassment.

As for Bulgaria, I'm not as interested as I am in Armenia but I just don't know anything at all about it and it rather annoys me lol.

Basically the reason is because several years ago I bought a globe (well three actually lol) with one purpose; I was going to study that globe as much as it took until I could draw a fairly accurate map of the whole world. I figured it would take my whole life but it took me about a month lol. That said, in time the accuracy drops considerably if one does not continue to study the globe - this is what I have learned :)

I now know where every country is and nearly every capital - i find this helps me take so much more from every news report and book i read.

My interest in history are mostly in the area of prehistory; the more ancient the more fascinated I am. And when I learned of Gobekli Tepe and the first cultivation wheat just mere miles away, this coupled with my recent interest in the Caususus range (piqued by the fact it divides the land from sea to 'almost'-sea) and led me to want to know more about this proud Armenian nation which far few people in my country seem to know anything about. Oh and I forgot to mention the standing stones which predate Stonehenge - that too caught my interest!   :)

I'm interested in geopolitics though so I must imagine a mountain range located in such a fashion would influence cultural/political evolution within the region?

Thanks again for all the wonderful materials  :)
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2013 at 13:40
Originally posted by barcelonic


Also what can you tell me about the genocide as I'm rather unfamiliar with those events too, much to my embarassment.


I can't be objective about this topic so my words will be just my word. I never call it as genocide. I am calling that period as civil war. They aimed to be indepentent, but their the biggest disadvantage was their population. They didn't live in same place as Greeks, the first Greece was declared the geography which was clearly mostly Greek, but in Armenian case, they were living mix with Kurds and Turks and there was not much Kurdish awarness, so all Turk and Kurd population could easily be united against their indepentent purpose

Most of the places were Muslim (dark green 75%)

as this US document said
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/US_State_Department_document_on_Armenian_Refugess_in_1921.jpg
there was 800.000 Armenian refguees from Turkey
and 280.000 Armenians in Turkey
and 95.000 Turkified Armenian

these makes more than 1.000.000 people so killed 1.500.000 Armenians just the Western Dream but as I said before this is my perstective. Of course all region suffered a lot when the Christians left the Anatolia, Muslim people from Crime, North Causcausia and Balkans left their homes and tried to come Anatolia so all the pain was important but just the real ones, not fiction nationalist crabs

Originally posted by barcelonic


As for Bulgaria, I'm not as interested as I am in Armenia but I just don't know anything at all about it and it rather annoys me lol.


Even I am as grandchild of Bulgarian Turk guy, I don't know something special about Bulgaria, just from the books Cry
(BTW Turks are major minority in Bulgaria nearly 8-9% of all population)
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