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Abtin & Franak (Odin & Frigga)

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Abtin & Franak (Odin & Frigga)
    Posted: 02-Dec-2013 at 13:08
There is not much info about Abtin/Avtin in the Iranian mythology, we just know that he was the father of Fereydun and his wife was Franak, of course there was a relation between him and Yima (Jamshid), it seems this relation was the same as the relation between Odin and Ymir, so we can say Abtin is Iranian All-Father, the name of Abtin is pronounced "Auvtin" which is really similar to Odin.

The name of Franak seems to have the same origin of Frigga: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Frigg&allowed_in_frame=0, relates to: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Frau&allowed_in_frame=0

"married woman," 1813, from German Frau "woman, wife," from Middle High German vrouwe "lady, mistress," from Old High German frouwa "mistress, lady" (9c.), from Proto-Germanic *frowo- "lady," fem. of *frawan "lord," from PIE root *per- (1) "beyond, forward," in extended senses "chief, first" (see per).

The Avestan word for first is "fraesht", the Persian word Frishta can be related to it too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereshteh
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2013 at 19:46
Cyrus, I have found this in one or two places, what do you know about it?
The Persian historians invert the true order, making Abtin the father of Feridun, and Iraj or Ur, his son.
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/john-campbell/the-hittites-their-inscriptions-and-their-history-volume-2-ala/page-21-the-hittites-their-inscriptions-and-their-history-volume-2-ala.shtml

Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 02-Dec-2013 at 19:46
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2013 at 00:15
Alani, I have also read these stories about the ten lost tribes of Israel, most of them try to relate other mythologies to the Hebrew mythology, of course there can be really some similarities but the fact is that they are different in origin.

Anyway according to the Persian sources, Abtin is the farther of Freydun and Freydun is the father of Iraj (legendary ancestor of Iranians).
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2013 at 20:59
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

There is not much info about Abtin/Avtin in the Iranian mythology, we just know that he was the father of Fereydun and his wife was Franak, of course there was a relation between him and Yima (Jamshid), it seems this relation was the same as the relation between Odin and Ymir, so we can say Abtin is Iranian All-Father, the name of Abtin is pronounced "Auvtin" which is really similar to Odin.

The name of Franak seems to have the same origin of Frigga: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Frigg&allowed_in_frame=0, relates to: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Frau&allowed_in_frame=0

"married woman," 1813, from German Frau "woman, wife," from Middle High German vrouwe "lady, mistress," from Old High German frouwa "mistress, lady" (9c.), from Proto-Germanic *frowo- "lady," fem. of *frawan "lord," from PIE root *per- (1) "beyond, forward," in extended senses "chief, first" (see per).

The Avestan word for first is "fraesht", the Persian word Frishta can be related to it too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereshteh
 
Very interesting. 
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jan-2014 at 22:21
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

There is not much info about Abtin/Avtin in the Iranian mythology, we just know that he was the father of Fereydun and his wife was Franak, of course there was a relation between him and Yima (Jamshid), it seems this relation was the same as the relation between Odin and Ymir, so we can say Abtin is Iranian All-Father, the name of Abtin is pronounced "Auvtin" which is really similar to Odin.


Could the name Abtin or Auvtin have anything to do with the wind.  Some have connected Odin's name to the wind, the father of Thunder, and Odin's father was Buri "the wind" and has also been compared to Gaymaratan, -maratan being akin to the Maruts "Vedic wind gods."
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2014 at 02:14
Burr is the father of Odin, with bestla- Buri was the father of Burr. Both terms, Buri and Burr, mean "Sohn, born".
Odin/Wotan is based on an ind.-eur. *vat and proto-germanic *woda. So one had to compare Abtin/Avtin with *wat/*woda. There is not much known about the early Wotan, allthough he is the best reported god. The most informations are from the Edda, but they are late and are already influence by christianity.
It is likely, that Wotan was originally not the highest god, the all-father, but Tiu/Ziu or Tyr, which is related with the ind.iran. dyaus-pitar or a lat. Jupiter. So there are a lot of similarities in indo-europ. religions, based on older, common indo-europ. gods. But all these gods were part of a transformation process during the centuries and millennnia after the differentiation f indo-european people.
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2014 at 08:09
Originally posted by beorna

Burr is the father of Odin, with bestla- Buri was the father of Burr. Both terms, Buri and Burr, mean "Sohn, born".
Odin/Wotan is based on an ind.-eur. *vat and proto-germanic *woda. So one had to compare Abtin/Avtin with *wat/*woda. There is not much known about the early Wotan, allthough he is the best reported god. The most informations are from the Edda, but they are late and are already influence by christianity.
It is likely, that Wotan was originally not the highest god, the all-father, but Tiu/Ziu or Tyr, which is related with the ind.iran. dyaus-pitar or a lat. Jupiter. So there are a lot of similarities in indo-europ. religions, based on older, common indo-europ. gods. But all these gods were part of a transformation process during the centuries and millennnia after the differentiation f indo-european people.

What is "sohn"?
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2014 at 09:51
sorry, "son" (Sohn is germanSmile)
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2014 at 19:26
Although it does appear that Av. Franak is Frigga's counter part, and Feridun Thor's counterpart, and Buri Gayomard's counterpart it would appear that the name Abdin is a variation of the Av. Athwya "lord of the waters."  This doesn't mean that Athwya and Odin are not counterparts though.  Was Odin ever known as "lord of the water"? 
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2014 at 01:15
About Borr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borr

Borr was "intended to signify [...] the first mountain or mountain-chain, which it was deemed by the forefathers of our race had emerged from the waters in the same region where the first land made its appearance. This mountain chain is probably the Caucasus, called by the Persians Borz (the genitive of the Old Norse Borr).


I believe Borr was not actually father of Odin but the previous ruler of the world, in fact there were three:  Ymir/Yima, Burr-asp/Bur and Abtin/Odin. In the Iranian mythology Fereydun fights against Burr-asp (Zahhak) to gain the throne, he defeats and imprisons him on the Borz/Albroz mountains.
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2014 at 17:07
Cool. 

Am I wrong or is it only in Iranian and Norse myth  that mentions 1. The Primeval Sea 2. A Bird Nesting ontop of a World Tree 3. A Primeval Cow 4. A Wind God and Primeval Man 5. The First Human Pair Grow from a Tree 6.   A Subeterranian Kingdom 7. Binding the Archnemesis 8. A Great Winter 9. A Bridge instead of a Waterway to the Afterlife.  Abdin/Odin Franak/Frigga Feridun/Thor goes back to at least an Indo-Iranian substratum.   



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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2014 at 17:56
updated outline: The Irano-Afghans and the Norse are the only Indo-Europeans that mention 1. The Primeval Sea 2. A Bird Nesting ontop of a World Tree 3. A Primeval Cow 4. A Wind God and Primeval Man 5. The First Human Pair Grow from a Tree 6.   A Subeterranian Kingdom 7. Binding the Archnemesis 8. Armageddon a. A Great Winter b. A Conflageration c.  The Dead and Nails (Loki arrives in a ship of Nails associated with Vendidad code) d. Battle with a Great Wolf c. Pairs of Opposites Battle d. Binding the Archdemon 9. A Bridge Instead of a Body of Water to the Afterlife. 
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