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Origin of the Indo-Europeans

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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Origin of the Indo-Europeans
    Posted: 18-Jul-2013 at 17:56
We all know who the Indo-Europeans are.

Some of the oldest civilizations that made an impact on this planet's history were actually Indo-European people. (Northern) Indians, Iranians, Greeks, Romans, Celts, etc. etc. are all connected to an ancient homeland that gave birth to the Proto-IndoEuropean people and their language(s).

Where did it all begin?

What really happened was that the so-called Aryan zone (Greater Iran) was only one stop of a long journey, not the beginning of anything at all.

The most dominant theory is the one that the academic community accepts as valid, world-wide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans

Let me quote from the above link:

"The Proto-Indo-Europeans in this sense likely lived during the late Neolithic, or roughly the 4th millennium BCE. Mainstream scholarship places them in the forest-steppe zone immediately to the north of the western end of the Pontic-Caspian steppe in Eastern Europe. "


"By the late 3rd millennium BCE, offshoots of the Proto-Indo-Europeans had reached Anatolia, the Aegean, Western Europe, Central Asia and southern Siberia. "


^ Mallory, J. P.; Adams, Douglas Q. (1997). Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture. Taylor & Francis. pp. 4–6. ISBN 978-1-884964-98-5. Retrieved 24 March 2012.



"While we see substantial genetic and archaeological evidence for an Indo-European migration originating in the southern Russian steppes, there is little evidence for a similarly massive Indo-European migration from the Middle East to Europe. One possibility is that, as a much earlier migration (8,000 years old, as opposed to 4,000), the genetic signals carried by Indo-European-speaking farmers may simply have dispersed over the years. There is clearly some genetic evidence for migration from the Middle East, as Cavalli-Sforza and his colleagues showed, but the signal is not strong enough for us to trace the distribution of Neolithic languages throughout the entirety of Indo-European-speaking Europe."


There have been a huge variety of ideas of the location of the first speakers of Proto-Indo-European, few of which have survived scrutiny by academic specialists in Indo-European studies sufficiently well to be included in modern academic debate. The three remaining contenders are summarized here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_hypothesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_hypothesis

None of them suggests that Iran  was the cradle of Indo-Europeans. Ouch




Caucasus and the region north of it is the actual home of the Indo-European people and languages. The Iranian family is only a small branch of it.




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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2013 at 18:13
Let's see some scientific evidence that refutes any  revisionist attempt to re-write history.

But before we do that, let's shed some more light on the evolution of Indo-European cultures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Armeno-Aryan

"In the context of the Kurgan hypothesis, Greco-Aryan is also known as "Late PIE" or "Late Indo-European" (LIE), suggesting that Greco-Aryan forms a dialect group which corresponds to the latest stage of linguistic unity in the Indo-European homeland in the early part of the 3rd millennium BC. By 2500 BC, Proto-Greek and Proto-Indo-Iranian had separated, moving westward and eastward from the Pontic Steppe, respectively."

Martin Litchfield West, Indo-European poetry and myth (2007), p. 7.

Now let's see how the Indo-Europeans moved from South Russia towards Iran-India and Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/R1a1a_distribution.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Kurgan_map.png

http://homepage.univie.ac.at/hans.platzer/spindo/iemigr.jpg


That explains why the river Vardar in Macedonia has a Thracian etymology, not an Iranian. The split between Indo-Europeans who moved to Iran/India and those who moved to Europe had happened before 2500-3000 BC.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 04:42
Instead of Wikipedia, you can look at some valid sources!
 
 
 
 
Thomas V. Gamkrelidze and V. V. Ivanov
The Early History of Indo-European Languages
 


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 19-Jul-2013 at 04:53
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 05:29
This issue is not a thing which  can be reduce a few theory or a signle truth. It is more complex than it


As you see, there are more theories than Armenian, Kurgan and Anatolia model. Even some of them show the origin of IE people in Europe and some of them support that origin land is in India



Indian theory doesn't have much supporter as Kurgan or Anatolian but it still exists.

European theory is anothor not much popular theory.  

According to Kurgan model, origin homeland is somewhere from north causcaus and east azov sea but the place is changable. It can be also west Blacksea in some models, but it is most well known.
Normal Kurgan Models and migration waves. Unsual origin lands are below, they are in more west

and Anatolia model. It gain a liitle bit advantages against Kurgan theory

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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 06:12
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Instead of Wikipedia, you can look at some valid sources!
 
 
 
 
Thomas V. Gamkrelidze and V. V. Ivanov
The Early History of Indo-European Languages
 



Wikipedia? What wikipedia?  My sources were cited in wikipedia only, it was not wikipedia that made any claim.

Serious universities all over the world support that only the academic consensus really matters.

And the academic consensus supports either Kurgan or Anatolian theories!

The second theory suggests that the homeland of Proto-Indoeuropeans was.... Turkey! That is very close to Greece. I guess you don't like this one either... Wink

The Kurgan hypothesis is the most dominant theory and suggests that... Indo-Aryans came from the Pontic Steppes, north of Caucasus.... That's a long way from Iran! In fact, the Pontic Greek dialect is probably the oldest attestation of Proto-Greek.


University lectures suggesting that Proto-IndoEuropeans came from Caucasus:

The talk presented here was originally delivered at Stanford University on December 13, 2012, sponsored by Stanford's Program in History and Philosophy of Science and Technology and co-sponsored by the Department of Linguistics.


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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 07:59
Originally posted by TITAN_

There have been a huge variety of ideas of the location of the first speakers of Proto-Indo-European, few of which have survived scrutiny by academic specialists in Indo-European studies sufficiently well to be included in modern academic debate. The three remaining contenders are summarized here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_hypothesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_hypothesis

None of them suggests that Iran  was the cradle of Indo-Europeans. Ouch
 
It even doesn't matter that those are closest lands to Iran than other Indo-European countries, the important point is that not only Iranian-speaking people, such as Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans, ... have the longest history in those regions but some Iranian peoples, such as Kurds, Ossetians and Tats still live there.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 08:43
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by TITAN_

There have been a huge variety of ideas of the location of the first speakers of Proto-Indo-European, few of which have survived scrutiny by academic specialists in Indo-European studies sufficiently well to be included in modern academic debate. The three remaining contenders are summarized here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_hypothesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_hypothesis

None of them suggests that Iran  was the cradle of Indo-Europeans. Ouch
 
It even doesn't matter that those are closest lands to Iran than other Indo-European countries, the important point is that not only Iranian-speaking people, such as Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans, ... have the longest history in those regions but some Iranian peoples, such as Kurds, Ossetians and Tats still live there.




Huh? What is closer to what? The Anatolian theory places the cradle of PIE next to Greece. In fact, Anatolia is the home of Greece's earliest schools of thought (Thales etc.). Iran is far away from Turkey. You have to cross Iraq first. Clap

The Armenian theory is weak and receives little support. Ouch

The dominant theory places the cradle of PIE people, north of Caucasus! That is South Russia, Eastern Ukraine, not Iran Confused What are you talking about?

Regarding the last sentences: There were no Iranian speaking people back then. Iranian languages did not exist back then. It was the PIE language shared by many different ethnicities which split and then formed Sanskrit, Persian, Greek etc.

The PIE split happened in prehistory, when writing scripts of PIE languages did not exist. Hittite is the oldest attested IE language and even that didn't leave us any record prior to 1600-1700 BC.
Greek was attested 2 centuries later.

Kurds, Ossetians etc. were ethnic groups attested much much later and are of mixed origin, not Iranians in general. Unless you believe in "pure blood" and ethnically clean people, you can't call them Iranians when those people have actually mixed with Turkic and other tribes.....

Scythians and Sarmatians did not derive from Iran. They derive from PIE tribes that lived in Caucasus and the Pontic Steppes. They became Iranians after the split, they did not pre-exist...as an ethnic/linguistic/cultural group.


"The Scythians first appeared in the historical record in the 8th century BC.[14] Herodotus reported three contradictory versions as to the origins of the Scythians, but placed greatest faith in this version:[15]

There is also another different story, now to be related, in which I am more inclined to put faith than in any other. It is that the wandering Scythians once dwelt in Asia, and there warred with the Massagetae, but with ill success; they therefore quitted their homes, crossed the Araxes, and entered the land of Cimmeria."


There is a huge gap between the 8th century BC and.... the 28th century BC, when Scythians had merely started to become a group that left Caucasus.

"Modern interpretation of historical, archaeological and anthropological evidence has proposed two broad hypotheses. The first, formerly more espoused view by Soviet-era researchers, roughly followed Herodotus' (third) account, stating that the Scythians were an Iranian group who arrived from Inner Asia, i.e. from the area of Turkestan and western Siberia.[14][19][20]

An alternative view explains the origin of the Scythian cultural complex to have emerged from local groups of the "Timber Grave" (or Srubna) culture (although this is also associated with the Cimmerians). This second theory is supported by anthropological evidence which has found that Scythian skulls are similar to preceding findings from the Timber Grave culture, and distinct from those of the Central Asian Sacae.[21]

Scythian and related archaeological groups in circum- Pontic region, c. 7th to 3rd centuries BC

Others have further stressed that "Scythian" was a very broad term used by both ancient and modern scholars to describe a whole host of otherwise unrelated peoples sharing only certain similarities in lifestyle (nomadism), cultural practices and language. The 1st millennium BC ushered a period of unprecedented cultural and economic connectivity amongst disparate and wide-ranging communities. A mobile, broadly similar lifestyle would have facilitated contacts amongst disparate ethnic groupings along the expansive Eurasian steppe from the Danube to Manchuria, leading to many cultural similarities. From the viewpoint of Greek and Persian ancient observers, they were all lumped together under the etic category "Scythians".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

Therefore Scythians were not limited to Iranian people but also to other nomards of Central Asia.






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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 10:16
Originally posted by TITAN_

Huh? What is closer to what? The Anatolian theory places the cradle of PIE next to Greece. In fact, Anatolia is the home of Greece's earliest schools of thought (Thales etc.). Iran is far away from Turkey. You have to cross Iraq first. Clap
 
I think you should look at a map, Turkey's second largest border is with Iran, it is almost two times longer than Turkey's border with Iraq and three times longer than Turkey's border with Greece.
 
Originally posted by TITAN_

The Armenian theory is weak and receives little support. Ouch 
 
This is just your own opinion, that is in fact the best researched theory. 
 
Originally posted by TITAN_

The dominant theory places the cradle of PIE people, north of Caucasus! That is South Russia, Eastern Ukraine, not Iran Confused What are you talking about?
 
For thousands of years it was the original land of Iranian peoples, such as Scythians and Sarmatians and now Ossetians and Tats, this is an undeniable fact.

Originally posted by TITAN_

Regarding the last sentences: There were no Iranian speaking people back then. Iranian languages did not exist back then. It was the PIE language shared by many different ethnicities which split and then formed Sanskrit, Persian, Greek etc.

The PIE split happened in prehistory, when writing scripts of PIE languages did not exist. Hittite is the oldest attested IE language and even that didn't leave us any record prior to 1600-1700 BC.
Greek was attested 2 centuries later.
 
It is important to know Iranians always lived in the regions where are believed to be the original land of Indo-European culture, so we should research in the Iranian culture to find more info about proto-Indo-European culture, Hittites don't exist anymore but Iranian Kurds already live in the same land.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 10:51
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by TITAN_

Huh? What is closer to what? The Anatolian theory places the cradle of PIE next to Greece. In fact, Anatolia is the home of Greece's earliest schools of thought (Thales etc.). Iran is far away from Turkey. You have to cross Iraq first. Clap
 
I think you should look at a map, Turkey's second largest border is with Iran, it is almost two times longer than Turkey's border with Iraq and three times longer than Turkey's border with Greece.
 


I am sorry Sir. Central Turkey is closer to the Aegean (Greece included Western Turkey, in case you didn't know) than it is to Iran.


Originally posted by TITAN_

The Armenian theory is weak and receives little support. Ouch 
 
This is just your own opinion, that is in fact the best researched theory.


Not at all. No scholar has the right to ignore the international academic consensus just to satisfy nationalistic and supremacy instincts. The Armenian theory is supported by Pan-Iranists mostly. The rest of the international adademia suggests that the right theory is the Krugan.


 
Originally posted by TITAN_

The dominant theory places the cradle of PIE people, north of Caucasus! That is South Russia, Eastern Ukraine, not Iran Confused What are you talking about?
 
For thousands of years it was the original land of Iranian peoples, such as Scythians and Sarmatians and now Ossetians and Tats, this is an undeniable fact.


For thousands of years it was the homeland of Proto-IndoEuropeans who then migrated to other areas, after the split. Scythians and Sarmatians descended from them and only comprised a small part of them. Northern Tats and Ossetians are the products of interbreeding with Turks, Arabs and myriads other tribes that have passed by. By no means they are direct descendants of the PIE. Therefore, those who still live in the cradle of the PIE are no more "original" than other peoples.
Moreover, those Scynthians were not one ethnic group but rather a number of nomadic tribes and not all of them were PIE in the first place.


Originally posted by TITAN_

Regarding the last sentences: There were no Iranian speaking people back then. Iranian languages did not exist back then. It was the PIE language shared by many different ethnicities which split and then formed Sanskrit, Persian, Greek etc.

The PIE split happened in prehistory, when writing scripts of PIE languages did not exist. Hittite is the oldest attested IE language and even that didn't leave us any record prior to 1600-1700 BC.
Greek was attested 2 centuries later.
 
It is important to know Iranians always lived in the regions where are believed to be the original land of Indo-European culture, so we should research in the Iranian culture to find more info about proto-Indo-European culture, Hittites don't exist anymore but Iranian Kurds already live in the same land.




Not at all. That makes no sense whatsoever, in any academic context. First off, the Iranian people and language are only a tiny bit of IE and ultimately PIE culture. If you are really looking to reconstruct the PIE language (let alone cultures) you are going to have to study, analyze and understand all descendants of this big branch. Don't forget that the oldest attested surviving language of the PIE group is Greek, since 1400-1500 BC tablets have been actually read and classified as archaic Greek, which together with Pontic Greek are direct descandants of Proto-Hellenic, the closest you can get to PIE roots.





As you can see for yourself, Proto-Celtic, is not attested excepts fragments. The Italic branch was not attested before the Latin alphabet was introduced back in 700-600 BC (7 centuries after Greek Linear B) while the other languages are either dead, or they appeared later or they were attested after 300 BC (Sanskrit). Bits and pieces that gave birth to Sanskrit have been found but by no means say much about the earlier form of Sanskrit.

So what's left? Persian and Avestan.....



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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 11:19
The oldest attestation of Old Persian is almost one millenium younger than ancient Greek.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behistun_Inscription
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Persian_cuneiform

"Scholars today mostly agree that the Old Persian script was invented by about 525 BC to provide monument inscriptions for the Achaemenid king Darius I, to be used at Behistun." That is 250 years after the Greek alphabet and 900+ years after Greek Linear B.

If you go further back in history you will find  the Akkadians (Afro-asiatic Semitic language, totally irrelevant to PIE) and of course the Elamite language and people.....

I shall focus on the Elamites.

Although Proto-Elamite script dates back to as early as 3000 BC and it originates in Iran, it has nothing to do with Iranian (Aryan, Indo-European) culture.... It's neither Semitic, nor Indo-European. Therefore the Elamites did not come from the PIE cradle of Caucasus or even Turkey.





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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2013 at 19:46
Not sure about the IE homeland, but the Iranian homeland was Central Asia region of Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex in what is modern day Turkmenistan.  This is based on Automosal DNA of modern day west iranians that shows that, there is a significantly high DNA that connects West Iranians with Central Asia/Central South Asia which is not found among other Middle-Easteners.  West Iranian also have higher R1a1a(z93+) that is found high in Central Asia.

This image actually shows how the Iranian migration happend and genetic has showen it to be true.




Edited by Ince - 19-Jul-2013 at 19:51
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2013 at 12:26
The map above also supports the Kurgan theory: The PIE homeland was far from Iran, north of Mt. Caucasus, in the Pontic Steppes.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2013 at 12:29

I believe the earliest known Indo-European people were neither Iranians nor Greeks but the Germanic people, these Germanic people lived in the west of Iran from the fourth millennium bc, one of them named Guti/Goth conquered Sumer and formed and empire in the third millennium bc, from the second millennium bc Iranian-speaking people from the east and Greeks from the west (look at this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24888) invaded to Iran and forced the Germanic people to migrate to the northern lands through the Caucasus.

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2013 at 22:12
Distance between Tahran and Ankara : 2095km
Distance between Athens and Ankara : 1544km (google maps)

and we have border with both two countries Big smile

Originally posted by TITAN_

 


Yes, I have seen this but, these maps are different they say that greek and persian are close. Is it something come from same origin or it is because of historical conquests 

 

as you gave the link before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Armeno-Aryan), is it true? and if yes why greek is not under the Satem group? What about Luwian and Pelasgian and Pro-Greek languages? Are they close?  

and Cyrus, if Armenian model is true, isn't someone who cross to Europe from Anatolia? and -you 
don't like it LOLbut from wiki:"The Armenian hypothesis of the Proto-Indo-European Homeland, based on the Glottalic theory suggests that the Proto-Indo-European language was spoken during the 4th millennium BC in the Armenian Highland."  (or do you think it is older than this?what about people who already lived in around 4000BC, in Euope. What kind of languages were they speaking? Languages which belong a extinct language family? maybe not extinct, Basque language can be its last member, can it? What is your opinion?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A difference between Kurgan And Anatolian model: according to anatolian model, indo-european immigration happened early than Kurgan model


Edited by Ollios - 21-Jul-2013 at 22:14
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2013 at 04:23
Posted: Today at 05:12 By Ollios
"Yes, I have seen this but, these maps are different they say that greek and persian are close. Is it something come from same origin or it is because of historical conquests 


as you gave the link before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Armeno-Aryan), is it true? and if yes why greek is not under the Satem group? What about Luwian and Pelasgian and Pro-Greek languages? Are they close?  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A difference between Kurgan And Anatolian model: according to anatolian model, indo-european immigration happened early than Kurgan model"

[/QUOTE]

Well, Greek and Persian are not really close and military conquests definitely played a significant role. The ancient Greeks wouldn't call them "barbarians" if they could understand a single thing from what they were saying....

The Graeco-Armeno-Aryan is a hypothetical branch, so I don't know if it is true or not.

Both Kurgan and Anatolian models support my opinion regarding the role of Iran in the expansion of PIE culture, and that's what really matters.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2013 at 04:33
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I believe the earliest known Indo-European people were neither Iranians nor Greeks but the Germanic people, these Germanic people lived in the west of Iran from the fourth millennium bc, one of them named Guti/Goth conquered Sumer and formed and empire in the third millennium bc, from the second millennium bc Iranian-speaking people from the east and Greeks from the west (look at this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24888) invaded to Iran and forced the Germanic people to migrate to the northern lands through the Caucasus.



To be honest, I have never heard this before. 4th millenium BC? According to the dominant models, by that time, the PIE had already split to various groups, so there were already Proto-Celts, Proto-Greeks, Proto-Iranians, Proto-Germanics, Proto-Slavs etc. etc.  Guti = Goth? Hmmm, I don't know about that. Also, there is no historical record that back in the second millennium BC (1999-1000 BC), Iranians and Greeks invaded Iran and threw out those... Germanic people.

Historically, Germanic people were first recorded by ancient..... Graeco-Romans.
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2013 at 01:04
Originally posted by Ince

Not sure about the IE homeland, but the Iranian homeland was Central Asia region of Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex in what is modern day Turkmenistan.  This is based on Automosal DNA of modern day west iranians that shows that, there is a significantly high DNA that connects West Iranians with Central Asia/Central South Asia which is not found among other Middle-Easteners.  West Iranian also have higher R1a1a(z93+) that is found high in Central Asia.

This image actually shows how the Iranian migration happend and genetic has showen it to be true.


sry but i can not see your pic could you please put it again here or give link to your website modern turkmens actually are not native turkmens of turkmenistan modern turkmen came to turkmenistan after mongol conquest the native ones wipe out exiled or absorb to new turkmen tribes

and about the dna in this forum there was a guy which believe all turkmens are mongol he we wrong u told us b4 the turkmens have more persian blood than persians i think your wrong too you turkmenistan is center of world it's normal to see people have different gene i can show u asian looking turkmen i can show u iranic turkmen i can show u blond turkmen we colored eye i can show u black turkmen  so no one can talk about genetic  and turkmens DON'T have genetic identity
yomud are free people
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Ollios View Drop Down
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2013 at 02:10
A new theory: Caspian Sea Model (it is like a little east version of Armenian model)

"As far as the Proto-Indo-European origins are concerned, the present representaion shows that the initial migration focus of the IE expansion must be located in the Caspian Sea region – most likely, in the area of present day Dagestan, Azerbaijan or the Province of Gilan in northern Iran."

Possible PIE timeline:
7000 BC Anatolia, farming
6000 BC settling down around the western coast of the Black Sea
5000 BC elevation of the Black Sea level
4500 BC pushed to northern Pontic steppes
4200 BC domestication of the horse in the Sredny Stog culture
4000 BC emergence of the Yamna culture
3600 BC early influence on the early Maykop culture
3500 BC arrival in Dagestan and Azerbaijan 
3400 BC separation of Proto-Anatolian (Proto-Hittite)
3400 BC early expansion of PIEs into Europe (Globular Amphora, Baden, Corded Ware) begins 
3300 BC the Yamna at its peak
3200 BC interaction of Proto-Anatolian with the Kura-Araxen culture
3100 BC satemization of the southern branch
3000 BC first use of wheeled carts by IEs 
2900 BC elevation of the Caspian sea level
2900 BC expansion of classic IE dialects begins
2800 BC expansion of the Yamna culture beyond the steppes begins

I think it is combination of all models.
*Everything began in Anatolia - Anatolian Model
*People go to west Balcksea as European origin theory
*Then PIE go to Pontic Steppe
*They create Yamna Culture which is also give in Kurgan model
*Then people start to go south firstly Maykop culture then Azerbaijan-Gilan region....
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2013 at 06:03
About Armenian theory, there are some important things, one of them as you read from my above post is "Contact with Semitic languages in Mesopotamia and with Kartvelian languages in the Caucasus led to the adoption of many fereign words."

For example about body parts:

Proto-Semitic *auyn (Arabic ayn & Akkadian yno) and Proto-Germanic *augon/auyon (English eye & Gothic augo)
Proto-Semitic *hanakik (Arabic unak & Aramaic uneka) and Proto-Germanic *hnekkon (English neck & Old Norse hnakkr)
Proto-Semitic *auzn (Arabic auzon & Akkadian uznu) and Proto-Germanic *auzon (English ear & Gothic auso)
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