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The Chinese Dawn, Is It Upon Us?
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Poll Question: Is a Chinese Dawn imminent?
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Shamshir View Drop Down
Knight
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Posts: 56 		  Quote Shamshir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Chinese Dawn, Is It Upon Us?
    Posted: 22-Jun-2013 at 18:48
For those of you who do not know, the People's Republic of China, boasting the world's largest population, is a potential global superpower. It has the world's largest standing army, the second-largest defense budget, the world's fastest-growing economy and is the largest importer and exporter of goods. The PRC exercises considerable political influence on the international community, and is a major player in the Middle-Eastern political scene. Scientifically, China is an advanced nation, possessing the world's fastest super-computer and is competing with the West in the IT market.


The question is: Are we in the early stages of a Chinese Century?
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Ollios View Drop Down
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2013 at 02:37
I voted for yes, but I still can't feel Chinese effect (political) in Turkey
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Posts: 480 		  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2013 at 11:12
I don't know...  Things have changed a lot during the last century. We see the rise of supranational entities such as the European Union, the African Union and the Latin American version of the EU, as well. 
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν
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From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC).
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 00:10
Give current trends even with a massive development of 20m tons plus beyond 15. And coupled to its ongoing ramp up of naval assets. One might assume a significant threat.


But don't wet your knickers yet.

The PRC is unable to sustain a massive lift or log support to cross the Pacific and present a major invasion threat east or conversely west viz the Indian Ocean to the Medd or Atlantic and they know it. The efforts to develop a 'blue water' navy, while substantial, have already been id as regionally offensive-defensive. And continue to take a back seat to commercial maritime construction.

Consequently the threat remains an economic one. And incidentally the PRC does indeed have a debt...contrary to all the crap one reads.


''As pointed out by Richard Parker in an article on the McClatchy-Tribune, China sits in default of bonds purchased by Americans as well as governments around world.


The Chinese government doesn't like to talk about it and the U.S. government doesn't want to raise it. But decades ago, Beijing defaulted on debt owed to Americans, as well as investors and governments around the world. In one case, it was paid. In the rest it was not. More than 20,000 American investors own this debt. The U.S. government may also own Chinese war debt, unpaid since World War II.''

cc: http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/2012/06/06/guess-who-owes-us-a-trillion-bucks/


So until the Commies can land and get across the Great Basin and approach the West slope.


Don't call me.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Chieftain
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 02:21
Maybe USA can hold own top position with new union / federation in North America as Nafta which is just in economical case.

Even a possible future evil China, Europe and even Russia(as in Nazi case) will develop strong ties with USA
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 12:30
China is also sitting on a gigantic Real Estate bubble.  Typically, the Chinese say they planned this. Yeah right, there are whole new cities sitting empty.  Huge office complexes, empty.  They pay folks to go in and turn lights on and off to give the illusion of occupancy.  And they are still buliding more.
 
When that thing pops, everyone's going to get splattered.
 
On that Chinese War Debt thing, the PRC will never acknowledge it, let alone pay it.  They say the debt is owed by the Taiwanese Gov.
 
  


Edited by red clay - 24-Jun-2013 at 12:38
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 12:46
A Chinese invasion?  Naah, they will land and promptly get caught on the Freeways, never to be heard from again.Big smile 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 14:39
@red clay

Every country has own bubble; Mortgage crisis in USA, other small Easten&Southeasten European country have bubbles (ex:Greece) and yes, China is not growing with a plan.

These bubbles are only unqiue true of economy which bases just economic growth instead of sustainablity. Bubbles can't get bigger forever

Main problem is not empty building, it is possible uprising as in Brazil and Turkey. Of course they will have to face it in future. 
 
 


Edited by Ollios - 24-Jun-2013 at 14:39
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Posts: 399 		  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 17:06
i Voted for no today china is strong cuz china and russia wont work against each other russia working on eu and middle east while china target the usa but still they have some problem russia is ally of india archenemy of china they building new t50 jet and new war ships for this china is ally of pakistan arch enemy of india they building jets and warships 2 Ermm . but the real problem is in central asia  (russian dominion) china have great influence on turkmenistan and uzbekistan and after nato leaves afghan soil afghanistan become their dominion 2 they have already ally of pakistan so the realy question is what side the iranian gov will chose ??? this is the point the russians and chines will work against each other directly and when it's happens the The Chinese Dawn will over




Edited by yomud - 24-Jun-2013 at 17:14
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2013 at 04:04
Originally posted by yomud

china and russia wont work against each other russia working on eu and middle east while china target the usa but still they have some problem russia is ally of india archenemy of china they building new t50 jet and new war ships for this china is ally of pakistan arch enemy of india they building jets and warships 2 Ermm .

Interesting

Originally posted by yomud

but the real problem is in central asia  (russian dominion) china have great influence on turkmenistan and uzbekistan and after nato leaves afghan soil afghanistan become their dominion 2 they have already ally of pakistan 

Russia firstly needs to look at own land (China's Invasion of Russia)

"The Chinese are invading Russia — not with tanks, but with suitcases."

"Russian media sources say that in the past year, Chinese investors have invested $3 billion in the Russian Far East – about three times as much as the Russian Federal Government spent over the same period."

" The Russian border areas of Siberia and the Russian Far East have a total population of 23.9 million, according toRosstat. The Chinese provinces bordering Russia, on the other hand, have a combined populace of more than 111 million persons."

Originally posted by yomud

so the realy question is what side the iranian gov will chose ??? 

The best choose is contiued current situation. In possible conflict, Russians can't stop forever future military operation against Iran. 
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Posts: 399 		  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2013 at 10:39
Originally posted by Ollios

Interesting
yes  this arming race is very Interesting isn't it ? Stern Smile more aircraft carrier submarine and warship russia building for india more china will build for pakistan more jet they build together more jet china will make for paki gov and they both are nuclear powers
 
Originally posted by Ollios

Russia firstly needs to look at own land
well lets take look around china south korea is ally of usa japan has natural policy but we know they are ally of usa central asia have more than 50 million population and russia have influence on them by csto which led directly by russians (uzbekistan and turkmenistan are in china's side)
india is arch enemy of pakistan and china they are ally of russia . russia have good influence  in countrys like vietnam and malasya ... china don't have any powerful ally except pakistan abd pakistan is under influence  of usa (they are ally on paper )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization

 
Originally posted by Ollios

The best choose is contiued current situation. In possible conflict, Russians can't stop forever future military operation against Iran. 
some time u must choose one side and u can't contiued current situation russians are working on eurasian union and china working and new silk road project in both project iran is port to the world turkmenistan is energy source afghanistan is metal source . russia have more influence than china  in middle east and they can make great pain for iranians if they choose china but if iran choose russia they will rewarded they can expand they power in afghanistan and former iranian contrey except central asian ones and they may take azerbijan back for more info look at this page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Youth_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Eurasianism#Neo-Eurasianism

this men "Aleksandr Dugin" is father of Neo-Eurasianism his book (Foundations of Geopolitics)  have very strong influence on russian politics and armed force and yes this book is favored by iranian military leaders see this link and u will know what they are up to
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

when i see that link 2 year ago i just laugh on it but today is see turkey is on reveluion and iran's parliament  they are trying to return azerbaijan  and poland is disappointed with west they are readying  to enter Eurasian union they don't try to challenge western media to repair their reputation cuz this is pointlessthey are focusing on anti-americanism a country who hate the american automatically will come to russians side(or maybe china's side) here we see the problem between china and russia

usa must use this problem to weaken both country otherwise they will be out of control
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2013 at 16:41
Originally posted by yomud

some time u must choose one side and u can't contiued current situation russians are working on eurasian union and china working and new silk road project in both project iran is port to the world turkmenistan is energy source afghanistan is metal source . russia have more influence than china  in middle east 

Of course, Iran will choose  Russia instead of China, like Turkey's choice USA instead of China  

Originally posted by yomud

and they can make great pain for iranians if they choose china but if iran choose russia they will rewarded they can expand they power in afghanistan and former iranian contrey except central asian ones and they may take azerbijan back for more info look at this page 

Do you think Greater Iran will be better for all Azeris and all Turkmens?

Originally posted by yomud


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

when i see that link 2 year ago i just laugh on it but today is see turkey is on reveluion and iran's parliament  they are trying to return azerbaijan  and poland is disappointed with west they are readying  to enter Eurasian union they don't try to challenge western media to repair their reputation cuz this is pointlessthey are focusing on anti-americanism a country who hate the american automatically will come to russians side(or maybe china's side) here we see the problem between china and russia

usa must use this problem to weaken both country otherwise they will be out of control

"Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities." (from your source) These ultra nationalist theories always find supporter in military and police system. It is not a big deal.

I told again thing in Turkey is not spring or revolution. It is not a system protest. It is just about goverment and it seems that goverment have already pressed it. Protest level is decreasing. 

I don't agree with you about anti-americanism. People don't hate America. They hate American Imperalism and all imperalistic ideas so why they should prefer Russian Imperalism? It is same. Just countries like Iran which is near the edge of war, will prefer it.  

Even during Ottoman-Germen alliance, Germans prepeared a plan to settle German colonies in Anatolia. We were with them for not to be France, British or Russian colony, but they had had different plan. I mean that don't hope equality when you play with big boys. Example Armenia and Azerbaycan have big conflict. They are in war now but Russia is smiling Armenia and Azerbajan in the same time. They don't make upset one side. They want to able to use both. 
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Posts: 399 		  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2013 at 22:52
Originally posted by Ollios

Of course, Iran will choose  Russia instead of China, like Turkey's choice USA instead of China 
im not sure about this iranian are waiting to see which side is stronger and richer in this situation they may choose russia as u say  but what if china take russian place in central asia ?? they have strong foothold in pakistan they are trying to have afghan's support they have very great influence in central asia (stronger in turkmenistan and uzbekistan) if they directly challengethe russians and if they could win this challenge this can be very bad for iranians so iranian will try to choose right  it dosem't matter how they close to russians they will choose the winner side


Originally posted by Ollios

Do you think Greater Iran will be better for all Azeris and all Turkmens?
ofc not dear ollios i think the greater turkey will be better for all azeris and turkmens from syria to turkmenistan i think restoring some of seljuk atabeks will be better for all of us  but what's the point  this is not reality and there is no "will" to turn it to reality. i just wanted highlight the azerbijan ofc im i dont love greater iran or this damn book  but this book  this book is reality

what the book says it may look far away from reality but this is what they are up to and those thing may happen in far  future  or with different ways but they will happens if west dont stop them lets take look to Middle East and Central Asia part

Iran is a key ally. The book uses the term "Moscow-Tehran axis
30 years ago iran was ally of usa after shah gone soviet was evil as much as usa we could hear "death to soviet" as much as "death to america" but now they are close ally they have achieved this part
Armenia has a special role and will serve as a "strategic base" and it is necessary to create "the [subsidiary] axis Moscow-Erevan-Teheran". Armenians "are an Aryan people ... [like] the Iranians and the Kurds"
 they have militry base with 7000 men in armenia and both armenian gov and people like the russians they have achieved this part   too

Georgia should be dismembered. Abkhazia and "United Ossetia" (which includes Georgia's South Ossetia) will be incorporated into Russia. Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable they have achieved this part they have 4 base there and if georgians talk too much they will move to tbilis and make fun of u.n

The book regards the Caucasus as a Russian territory, including "the eastern and northern shores of the Caspian (the territories of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan)" and Central Asia (mentioning Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan and Tajikistan) do u think today turkmenistan is a independent country?? no it's not turkmens may try to get away from russians but u know russians always get what they want and they will force the turkmens to do what they says  same for other country (uzbekistan is half independet ) we know what will happens if azerbijan walk the georgia's path . they have achieved this part

Azerbaijan could be "split up" or given to Iran this is something we reading in news and    if usa  dont and stop them it may happen in near future . just walk in streets of tehran and yell who like to fight against azerbijan and u will see the answer iran can make shiaii azerbijan with iran as it's alter or they can make war(it can stared from caspian sea problem) persians are aryan people armenian are aryan people both people are close and we seeing  ultra nationalistare growing in iran as iranian gov dont have people's support they can use the war to unifying their own people(as they did in iran iraq war) not all the war favored by people but only the  wars  people like to fight with in it and it have guarantee  for victory (not a cup of poison). yes this aryan people love to fight agianst the turks and azerbijan is not strong as saddam  was . this will achieved in near future



Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities greatest and highest target and main problem of russia .turkey the only country which have truly indepencey in russian plans turkic nations should have limited indepencey  in their view turkey must face shocks i cant be minorities it can be civil war it can be so many thing but the fact is they will smiling at you but they hold very big knife in their back and when the it's times come they will stab u in back im happey to hear
Protest level is decreasing  . this is not matter what people want or saying all the matter is the riot the shocks . i like to see strong tukey . strong turkey is good for every turk this is why they want to put u down


Edited by yomud - 25-Jun-2013 at 23:10
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