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USA in World war one

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: USA in World war one
    Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 14:25
Tell us their names Azita,"countries" are their alibis!There are always alphas that decide "in the name of God".They invented Divide et impera to rule that way.Big smile(i am not convinced still about planet's name
where they came from of course!)
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2013 at 19:09
Medenaywe, are you saying that Hollywood war films are the reason the Americans beleive they won WWII singlehanded?
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 00:38
Originally posted by Azita

So we agree"



No, we agree on nothing except your dislike for America, and your annoying habit of cherry-picking history to support your dislike.

So far you have slandered my nation repeatedly with your innuendos and allegations, and offered zero proof despite numerous requests that you provide, whch means you have no proof and therefore nothing further worth discussing.

You didn't even know that the names I gave you - Belleau Wood, et al, were American actions during WWI; you actually told me that I should stick to talking about America, when I was talking about America all long and you didn't even know it.

Game, set and match.  We through here.


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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 00:41
Dunno about that...most young gen 4xers Amerikans don't know a damn thing about WW2; let alone WW1. Cosequently it's extremely doubtful they believe it was won 'single handed' by the USA.
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 00:43
Originally posted by Nick1986

Medenaywe, are you saying that Hollywood war films are the reason the Americans beleive they won WWII singlehanded?


It probably has had a lot to do with it.  Hollywoody has a very narrow view of history, and although the film industry has been accused of many things over the years, they have never been accused of having much interest in historical accuracy.

Our educational system isn't blameless in this, either.  History mostly teaches us about America's role in the various wars, will either overlooking or downplaying the roles of other nations.

That being said, America was a major contributor to the victories in WWII, something largely left out of the "histories" taught by other nations.

Remember U-571?

Too bad I'm done with college - your idea would make a terrific thesis. Wink
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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 03:50
Originally posted by Mountain Man

  and your annoying habit of cherry-picking history to support your dislike.

Why does it annoy you?  And i dont dislike the USA, just some of its history, IS concentrating on a specific event in history cherry picking then? if so we all do it.

Originally posted by Mountain Man

  So far you have slandered my nation repeatedly with your innuendos and allegations, and offered zero proof despite numerous requests that you provide,

It is only slander if is not true.
As for proof I did quote my numerous sources, did you check them out?
Tell you what, i have 4 lectures in PDF format, can i email them to you?

Originally posted by Mountain Man

  You didn't even know that the names I gave you - Belleau Wood, et al, were American actions during WWI;

Sorry you are correct, i didn't even bother to check as I was so sure you were on a justification by criticism rant, my mistake, i apologise.

Originally posted by Mountain Man

Game, set and match.  We through here.

Giving up? Without disproving my original comments. shame.

PLEASE don't keep getting so upset, its a history forum, as such do YOU consider I should NOT discuss American history?

Regards

Azita



I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 08:40
Iraq Gold Hollywood did before invasion on Iraq!You can follow American "propaganda" on movies and predict what does follows next also!LOLSecrecy on highest level they have.It is a good recruitment toy,movie



Edited by medenaywe - 07-Mar-2013 at 08:45
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 09:50
Why does it annoy you?
He's a big guy.... he can answer for himself. But it's annoying because it's obvious and amateurish and you have a known track record on other venues for this stuff. And in many cases, as far as I'm concerned, has proven to be inaccurate or deceptive. Argumentative and repetitive for no reasonably significant purpose and quasi-inflammatory. That's my member response.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
My Mod response is:
It's getting close to a Coc violation as a hidden form of trolling and anti-nationalism. So my recommendation is: you improve on your semantic representation of your bias.
Or suffer the consequences.
 
 
 
 
 
If that's not clear enouigh....PM the Admin-owner for clarification.


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 07-Mar-2013 at 09:58
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 11:34
WWI began in 1914.  Even those who were alive and present at the time had a hard time figuring out why and how the war started.
The US was a quiet inward looking society at the time.  We had 2-3 years of watching what looked like Europe losing it's mind.  The US was isolationist with good reason.  It was only after the violence started to effect us via "unrestricted subamarine warfare" that Wilson was able to bring us into it.
First hand experience with the carnage was elemental in the extreme isolationist views prior to WWII.  This was expressed in the press with the phrase "No more involvement in Europe's wars".
 
In short, in 1915 we in the US wanted no parts of Europe's "Insanity".
 
 
 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 11:46
Officially the name Belleau Wood, no longer exists. The French officially changed the name to-
 
Bois de la Brigade Marine.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 11:59
On the subject of training, the US forces were trained to aim at individual targets. [The US was largely rural, most of the men were used to hunting with a rifle at long range] 
 
The German troops were trained to put down a field of fire, not aiming at a particular target.  When the Germans first attacked the Marine positions at Belleau wood, they were driven back by chillingly accurate rifle fire at 800 yards. And with, I might add, the very accurate Springfield 1903 rifle, made in the US.
 
I realize that making up stuff is more fun than sticking with actuality, but when it comes to stuff like this, get it right.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 12:12
Originally posted by red clay

Officially the name Belleau Wood, no longer exists. The French officially changed the name to-
 
Bois de la Brigade Marine.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 13:15
Originally posted by red clay

 I realize that making up stuff is more fun than sticking with actuality, but when it comes to stuff like this, get it right.
 


could you tell me what rifle the US 27th Division were issued?
or perhaps what the US  369th, 370th, 371st and 372nd regiments where issued?
I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 13:23
To my knowledge there were 2 rifles issued, an American manufactured version of the Enfield and the Springfield 1903.
 
The Browning MA1917 water cooled replaced the French Chaut Chaut. 
 
 
The sidearm issue was the Colt 1911 Cal. 45.  It has  stopping power, the Wembly just looked good.
 
 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 07-Mar-2013 at 17:52
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 13:41
 
 
For general descriptions of armaments and vehicles, aircraft and ships in theater; see:  http://www.militaryfactory.com/world-war-1/weapons.asp


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 07-Mar-2013 at 17:51
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 15:28
CV, the first 2 links are dead.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 18:23
Originally posted by red clay

CV, the first 2 links are dead.
 
Strange. I can get them at will. Well they are good links giving a good history on the 27th ID.
Try working around them by going to the 'New York State Division of Military and Naval Affairs: Military History.' Once there search for the '27th Division world War One'. 
 
My apologies to all concerned.
 
For info on the other regiments see:
 
 
 
 
 
Torrence, Gerald. Men of Bronze: African American Soldiers valor and sacrifice made history on the battlefields of World War I. Armchair General Magazine (Vol.VIII Issue 2 – May 2011). p.42
 
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 07-Mar-2013 at 18:24
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 23:21
Red Clay, be careful in presuming that most of the AEF was armed with the M 1903 Springfield. I've recently seen an article that claims the rifle of three quarters of the AEF was the M 1917 Enfield, and that this was the rifle that Alvin York used. As I recall the old Gary Cooper movie, it was a M 1903 Springfield, but I didn't take into consideration that in the 1930s, when many such movies were made, the M-1903 Springfield was the standard rifle of the U.S. Army. 

Azita's finally reading his histories, and cherry picking the Black units issued French weapons and equipment, which undercuts his original claim that American troops were not allies and we never supported either British of French commanders in the field.

Also, I'm not so sure how quiet we were. We were in and out of Nicaragua between 1909 and 1933. I believe we hung their president in 1912, We landed troops in Verzcruz, Mexico, where Dugout Dougie tried to get himself a Medal of Honor in 1914. Smedly D. Butler received a Medal of Honor for his actions in Haiti in 1915, which we occupied that year. In 1916 we moved into the Dominican Republic, and closer to home, if farther from Washington, we sent Pershing into Mexico to punish Pancho Villa for an attack on Columbus, New Mexico by elements of his armies. Not to mention that the Cavalry had been operating along the border to secure it from such raids for some time prior to that, and remained on the border until WWII.


Edited by lirelou - 07-Mar-2013 at 23:39
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2013 at 00:49
It seems as if it's thought that the US should have entered WWI in 1915.  Why? To repeat my above post, we, the US watched Europe piss away an entire Generation in 2 years.  A substantial portion of the population wanted to stay out of it.  Why not stand off, and deal with both sides?  We had a perfect model in Britain during our Civil War.
 
Azita is partially right about Wilson bringing the US into the war,   I say partially, because she distorts his motivations.
Let me make this clear, I hold Wilson to be the worst thing that happened to the US since the Civil War.  But not for his handling of the War. 
 
Misguided, Quixotic perhaps, but sincere in his effort.  He was an idealist.  He was appalled at the loss of life, and in his mind wanted to outlaw war.  He was also very sick,  and his health started to fail him when he needed his strength most. He didn't run away, his campaign for the 14 points sapped his strength to the point of exhaustion.  It's an accepted fact now, that for the later months of his Admin. Mrs. Wilson ran the ship. 
 
I can produce many sources for all of this.  Azita, I despise Wilson for the Racist sob he definitely was, but history is history, and in it's best and most useful form is agenda free and influences balanced and controlled.
Otherwise, it's just a random collection of rumor and anecdotes.
 
 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2013 at 01:16
Originally posted by lirelou

Red Clay, be careful in presuming that most of the AEF was armed with the M 1903 Springfield. I've recently seen an article that claims the rifle of three quarters of the AEF was the M 1917 Enfield, and that this was the rifle that Alvin York used. As I recall the old Gary Cooper movie, it was a M 1903 Springfield, but I didn't take into consideration that in the 1930s, when many such movies were made, the M-1903 Springfield was the standard rifle of the U.S. Army. 

Azita's finally reading his histories, and cherry picking the Black units issued French weapons and equipment, which undercuts his original claim that American troops were not allies and we never supported either British of French commanders in the field.

Also, I'm not so sure how quiet we were. We were in and out of Nicaragua between 1909 and 1933. I believe we hung their president in 1912, We landed troops in Verzcruz, Mexico, where Dugout Dougie tried to get himself a Medal of Honor in 1914. Smedly D. Butler received a Medal of Honor for his actions in Haiti in 1915, which we occupied that year. In 1916 we moved into the Dominican Republic, and closer to home, if farther from Washington, we sent Pershing into Mexico to punish Pancho Villa for an attack on Columbus, New Mexico by elements of his armies. Not to mention that the Cavalry had been operating along the border to secure it from such raids for some time prior to that, and remained on the border until WWII.
 
 
My exact statement was-
 
To my knowledge there were 2 rifles issued, an American manufactured version of the Enfield and the Springfield 1903.
 
 
I only left out the M1917 desig.  Hey, some of the rear and support troops were toting the Kragg 1898.  I'm aware that the declaration of war caught us completely unprepared. The 1903 was adopted as the standard rifle for the Army in 1904, there just wasn't enough of them in 1917.
 
With a couple exceptions, we tended to limit our activities to the Western Hemisphere, and on a scale dwarfed by WWI
 And you don't think that the Zimmerman Letter had as much to do with Pershings presence as Pancho Villa?
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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