Originally posted by beorna red clay, maybe you don't participate, but perhaps you are still reading. If you would take a look into Beevor's D-Day, you can find an story, when on an LST the wounded allied soldiers tried to kill german POWs. Only medic corpsmen could avoid a massacre. But there are meanwhile a lot of stories known, where it happened. So even members of LST's could have known, what had happened.

from Seidler/de zayas, a list of some known war crimes by US units


(1) Charantan, Normandy (14 Jun 1944) A captured NCO named Fanja was killed by a neck shot. (CharantanlNormandie (14. 6. 1944): Der Unteroffizier Fanja wurde nach der Gefangennahme durch Genick schuß getötet.)

(2) Culot, Normandy (Jul 1944): Out of control shooting of captured German soldiers, or shooting out of control German PoWs. (Culot/Normandie (Juli 1944): Erschießung in Gefangenschaft geratener deutscher Soldaten.)

(3) Le Mans (7 Aug 1944): Multiple shootings of captured SS men from Combat Group Fick of the 17th SS PanzerGrenadier Division "Goetz von Berlichingen." (Le Mans (7. B. 1944): Aus der Kampfgruppe Fick der 17. SS-Pz.-Gren.-Division. „Götz von Berlichingen” wurden mehrere gefangene SS-Männer erschossen.)

(4) Klein Punach near Metz (20 Sept 1944): Prisoners were called out of a main group and shot in the back. (Klein Punach bei Metz (20. 9. 1944): Gefangene wurden zum Weggehen aufgefordert und in den
Rücken geschossen.)

(5) Waldhausen: On 11 Jan 1945 10 captured SS soldiers were shot by the Americans. (Waldhausen (11. 1. 1945): 10 gefangene SS-Soldaten werden von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(6) Tiefenbach (Easter Sunday 1945): Three captured Waffen-SS men were shot by Americans. (Tiefenbach (Osterdienstag 1945): Drei Kriegsgefangene der Waffen-SS werden von US-Amerikanern er-schossen.)

(7) Willenbacherhof (10 Apr 1945): Between 10 and 20 wounded German PoWs were shot by the Americans. (Willenbacherhof (10. 4. 1945): 10 bis 20 verwundete und gefangene deutsche Soldaten von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(8) Hermersberg: On 11 Apr 1945 a German soldier was strangled to death by an American with a wire garotte and a spade. (Hermersberg (11. 4. 1945): Landser mit Drahtschlingen erdrosselt und mit Spaten von US-Amerikanern totgeschlagen.)

(9) Lampoldshausen (Gemeindefriedhof/ Waldstück Fuchsberg): On 13 Apr 1945 six German POWs were shot by Americans. (Lampoldshausen (Gemeindefriedhof/ Waldstück Fuchsberg): 13. 4. 1945: Sechs gefangene deutsche Soldaten von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(10) Hermersberg: On 15 Apr 1945 captured SS soldiers were machine-gunned by Americans. (Hermersberg (15. 4. 1945): Gefangene SS-Soldaten werden von hinten mit Maschinengewehren von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(11) Harkerode (15 Apr 1945): 16 captured Hitler Youths were shot by Americans in a quarry. (Harkerode (15. April 1945): 16 gefangene Hitlerjungen in einem Steinbruch von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(12) Treseburg (18 Apr 1945): 14 hostages, including 11 Hitler Youth, were killed by American neck shots. (Treseburg (18. 4. 1945): 14 Geiseln, darunter 11 Hitlerjungen, durch Genickschüsse durch Amerikaner er-mordet (in Richtung Allrode).)

(13) Lippach near Lauchheim: On 22 Apr 1945 36 German soldiers who had been captured by the Americans were killed by neck shots or by having their heads smashed in ("brained"); about 20 women were raped. (Lippach bei Lauchheim (22. 4. 1945): 36 deutsche Soldaten wurden nach Gefangennahme von US-Amerikanern durch Genickschuß oder Einschlagen der Schädel umgebracht; etwa 20 Frauen vergewaltigt.)

(14) Eberstätten in the provincial district of Pfaffenhofen on the Ilm River: On 28 Apr 1945 German PoWs were placed about 50 meters away and then shot "while attempting to escape." (Eberstätten im Landkreis Pfaffenhofen a. d. Ilm (28. 4. 1945): Deutsche Kriegsgefangene wurden aus etwa 50 Meter Entfernung „auf der Flucht erschossen”.)

(15) Tittling (29 Apr 1945) The mayor was arrested and shot. (Tittling (29. 4. 1945): Festnahme und Erschießung des Bürgermeisters.)

(16) Dachau concentration camp: On 29 Apr 1945 134 members of the guard battalion were executed by American machine-gun fire and 40 others were killed by prisoners. (KL-Dachau (29. 4. 1945): 134 Angehörige des Wachsturmbannes durch amerikanisches MG-Feuer und 40 weitere durch Häftlinge ermordet.)

(17) Dachau concentration camp: On 29 Apr 1945 346 severely injured patients at the Dachau military hospital, along with nurses, doctors, kitchen personnel and others were killed by American machine-gun fire. The SS personnel were not part of the concentration camp cadre, but belonged to the 5th Training Battalion of the "Wiking" Division. (KL-Dachau (29. 4. 1945): 346 Schwer- und Schwerstverwundete des Dachauer Kriegslazarettes, sowie Schwestern, Arzte, Küchenpersonal u.a. durch amerikanische MG-Salven ermordet. Die SS-Leute gehörten nicht zu der Stammannschaft, sondern zum Ausbildungs-Btl. 5 der Division „Wiking”.)

(18) Mauerkirchen-Altheim near Braunau on the Inn River: On 30 Apr 1945 there was (Ausplünderung -- plunder, pillage, spoliation, looting, sacking, rape, despoilment, pilferage, scavenging) of German soldiers. (Mauerkirchen-Altheim bei Braunau/ Inn (30. 4. 1945): Ausplünderung deutscher Soldaten.)

(19) Kleinweil (Großweil postal service): On 30 Apr 1945 two captured German soldiers were shot by the Americans. (Kleinweil (Post Großweil) – 30. 4. 1945: Erschießung von zwei deutschen gefangenen Soldaten durch US-Amerikaner.)

(20) Trassheim near Ruderfing (1 May 1945): US soldiers shot two civilians. (Trassheim bei Ruderfing (1. 5. 1945): US-Soldaten erschießen zwei Zivilisten.)

(21) Oberframmern (1 May 1945): Seven German PoWs were driven to the Dorfstrasse (Dorf Street or perhaps the main road through the town) and shot by the Americans. (Oberframmern (1. 5. 1945): Sieben deutsche Kriegsgefangene wurden von US-Amerikanern durch die Dorfstraße getrieben und erschossen.)

(22) On the way to Altheim, at the beginning of May 1945, Americans shot German PoWs who were too tired to keep up with the column of prisoners. (Verlegung nach Altheim (Anfang Mai 1945): US-Amerikaner erschießen deutsche Gefangene, die aus der Kolonne liefen oder wegen Erschöpfung nicht mehr weiter konnten.)

B. Undated events:

(1) Erching (at the customs house): A captured German NCO was shot by an American. (Erching (Zollhaus): Gefangener deutscher Unteroffizier wurde von Amerikanern erschossen.)

(2) Herbolzheim: Seven SS soldiers who were captured by the Americans were shot. (Herbolzheim: Sieben SS-Soldaten werden nach Gefangennahme von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(3) Kressbach: Six captured SS men were killed by neck shots. (Kressbach: Sechs gefangene SS-Männer durch Genickschuß getötet.)

(4) Neuenbeken field hospital: Two wounded SS soldiers were taken out of their beds and then executed by neck shots. (Feldlazarett Neuenbeken: Zwei verwundete SS-Soldaten wurden aus den Betten geholt und durch Genickschüsse erschossen.)

(5) Nordborchen: A number of captured SS soldiers were shot. (Nordborchen: Erschießung von mehreren gefangenen SS-Soldaten.)

(6) Friedhof von Etteln: 27 captured SS soldiers were killed by neck shots. (Friedhof von Etteln: 27 gefangene SS-Soldaten durch Genickschuß getötet.)

(7) Henglan: Four German prisoners were shot. (Henglan: Erschießung von vier deutschen Gefangenen.)

(8) Paderborn area: Approximately 30 German soldiers and Hitler Youth were shot through the head; a couple of them were tied up. (Raum Paderborn: etwa 30 deutsche Soldaten und Hitlerjungen wurden durch Kopfschüsse getötet (einige starben gefesselt).)

(9) Northwest Upper Harz in the Paderborn area: Approximately 100 captured German soldiers were murdered. (Nordwestlicher Oberharz/Raum Paderborn: Etwa 100 gefangene deutsche Soldaten ermordet.)

(10) Northwest Upper Harz around Osnabrueck: 17 SS soldiers were executed by neck shots. Five dedicated Hitler Youths were hanged by Americans from a tree. (Nordwestlicher Oberharz/Osnabrück: 17 SS-Soldaten durch Genickschuß umgebracht. Fünf Hitlerjungen wer-den, nachdem sie sich ergaben, von den US-Amerikanern an einen Baum gehängt und totgeprügelt.)

(11) Offenhausen near Hersbruck: Three young Waffen-SS PoWs were shot by Americans. (Offenhausen bei Hersbruck: Drei gefangene junge Soldaten der Waffen-SS wurden von US-Amerikanern erschossen.)

(12) Waschbach near Bad Mergentheim: Drunken Americans raped women and young girls. (Waschbach bei Bad Mergentheim: Betrunkene US-Amerikaner vergewaltigen Frauen und Mädchen.)

(13) Pfaffenhofen: Americans shot 17 captured German soldiers. (Pfaffenhofen: US-Amerikaner erschießen 17 gefangene deutsche Soldaten.)

(14) North of Dachau – Webling: A number of captured German soldiers from Battle Group Truchsess were shot. (Nördlich von Dachau – Webling: mehrere gefangene deutsche Soldaten der Kampfgruppe von Truchseß wurden erschossen.)

(15) Eggstätt near Endorf: Americans shot two German soldiers, after making them dig their own graves. (Eggstätt bei Endorf: US-Amerikaner erschießen zwei Soldaten, die vorher ihre Grablöcher schaufeln mußten.)

(16) Atenau: American troops shot all German soldiers who were trying to surrender. (Atenau: US-Amerikaner erschießen alle Soldaten, die sich vorher ergeben hatten.)

(17) Hengersberg(?): Americans shot the mayor, his wife, two schoolchildren and a "Zufallszeugen." (Hengersberg(?): Erschießung des Bürgermeisters, seiner Frau, zwei schulpflichtigen Kindern und eines Zufallszeugen durch die Amis.)

(18) In the hamlet of Zell, 18 captured anti-aircraft troops were murdered by neck shots. (Ortschaft Zell: 18 Flaksoldaten wurden nach Gefangennahme durch Genickschuß ermordet.)

Originally posted by red clay I withdraw from this thread.

Originally posted by toyomotor Haven't we gone way off thread here, again?   The title of the thread is   Allied war crimes during World War II Nothing to do with Taliban, Japanese or Germans.

You are boath, right and wrong. Of course you're right, that this is about WWII. But you are wrong if you see no connection. In all those wars the crimes are based on a dehumanisation of the enemy, based on a shift of the frame of refenrence

Originally posted by Mountain Man Originally posted by beorna That is nonsense. I cannot judge? It seems people like you have no problem to judge germans. But I can tell you I do not judge about these people. I am even more interested in the reasons why the commit crimes instead of blaming them just to blame them. I am interested why germans murdered, why Russians murdered, why Americans, britons and others murdered and if not, why not. If we ignore crimes like you, we are condemned to repeat these mistakes. The USA have never learned. That's why they committed war crimes in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and now in Afghanistan. That's why some still mutilate Taliban and still take trophies. You're rebuttal is to feel sorry for the Taliban?  Terrorists who murder women and children?  What planet are you from?  THIS is why we don't have discussions on this forum.  Too many people who nothing about history but want to comment on it and criticize it.

Do you know what made the nazis so terrible? They thought they are the chosen race, their enemies bugs and that is was not bad to destroy these bugs. The dehumanisation of the enemy caused so many crimes.
I neither like the taliban nor do I like Al Qaeda. But it seems you not even know the difference. It were the Mujjahedin you supported during the Soviet-Afghan war, who are today the Taliban. At those days they were called freedom fighters. But now you love to call them terrorist, just because they are on the other side. Your state has as well no problem to work together with states who support terrorism, you even sended supposed taliban or Al Qaeda members to Syria to get tortured.
The taliban are a bunch of islamistic fanatics, the Al Qaeda members are cowards. But that doesn't give the USA or other states the right to humiliate their bodys, that doesn't give the USA the right to treat them like they do it in Guantanamo, to torture them or if we look to Abu Ghraid in Iraq to mistreat them sexually. The same racist attitude Americans had against the japanese, do they seem to have as well against Muslims.

Originally posted by beorna That is nonsense. I cannot judge? It seems people like you have no problem to judge germans. But I can tell you I do not judge about these people. I am even more interested in the reasons why the commit crimes instead of blaming them just to blame them. I am interested why germans murdered, why Russians murdered, why Americans, britons and others murdered and if not, why not. If we ignore crimes like you, we are condemned to repeat these mistakes. The USA have never learned. That's why they committed war crimes in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and now in Afghanistan. That's why some still mutilate Taliban and still take trophies.

You're rebuttal is to feel sorry for the Taliban?  Terrorists who murder women and children? 

What planet are you from? 

THIS is why we don't have discussions on this forum.  Too many people who nothing about history but want to comment on it and criticize it.

Originally posted by red clay Still trying to justify what your folks did in WWII, by saying "they did it too".  "Your troops murdered innocent prisoners of war" etc. etc. eh Beorna.

I would expect such offense by a troll but not by a mod! Where did I ever justify a single murder by germans? Where? Did you read my links, did you ever care about literature and sources, even presented by scientists from former allied countries? I do not expect, that you read German literature, but at least your own scientists?
Do I say german crimes were justified? Did I ever say allied crimes are greater or as great as Germans? Did I ever said allied soldiers are more evil than Germans? The answer is simple, NO, I did not. BUt you seem to close your eyes, just because you don't want to see.

Originally posted by lirelou Toyomotor, First, Calley was pardoned, an act within the power of the executive, not the judiciary. Second, how many years did the perpetrators of the Hue Massacres serve? That's right, they weren't even tried. They were carrying out orders. Also, one helicopter pilot received the Medal of Honor for trying to stop the My Lai massacre.

Edited by toyomotor - 11-Feb-2014 at 00:25

Well said General.