Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Was Gandhi gay?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was Gandhi gay?
    Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 13:06
According to the Mail, Gandhi and a German bodybuilder were lovers in South Africa:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270778/Was-Gandhi-gay-Letters-Mahatma-Gandhi-bodybuilding-friend-fuel-speculation-true-nature-relationship.html
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 13:47


I doubt it but he definitely had ''pedophilic'' orientations often sleeping naked with female children and giving them enemas in the morning.
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Mountain Man View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 16-Aug-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 873 		  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 15:09
In terms of who Ghandi was and what he accomplished for the Indian people during his lifetime, why would it even matter?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Back to Top
Mountain Man View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 16-Aug-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 873 		  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 15:10
Originally posted by Baal Melqart



I doubt it but he definitely had ''pedophilic'' orientations often sleeping naked with female children and giving them enemas in the morning.




Do you have a verifiable source for this?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 15:46
Don't know about Baal and wont speak for him...but according to one of his biographers Jad Adams: GANDHI Naked Ambition; it was strange to say the least. Or at least strange as I would view it.
 
I haven't read it nor necessarily intend to. But the reviews speak for themselves.
 
Whether he was gay or not I'll leave to those interested in either promoting that agenda or not. And or the psycho-babblers and historical revisionists in their attempts to to do the same. 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 30-Jan-2013 at 15:50
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 15:59
Originally posted by Mountain Man

Originally posted by Baal Melqart



I doubt it but he definitely had ''pedophilic'' orientations often sleeping naked with female children and giving them enemas in the morning.




Do you have a verifiable source for this?


I'm glad you asked. Here you go:



I know the show is trying to lampoon him but watch until the end, his grandson admits it and is acting as an apologist for him.
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Venkytalks View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 15-Jan-2013
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 82 		  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 08:11
Gandhi definitely slept in the same bed as adolescent girls - naked - and to my mind it is definitely weird and unacceptable.

He did so openly. It was the topic of much discussion and outrage in the late 1930s when he did so.

His thinking was this - he believed that the denial of his sexual urges gave him some kind of magical powers (or spiritual power or the power of tapasya). He thought these magical powers increased the effect of his fasting protests against the British rule.

Denial and control of sexual urges - as well as engaging in ritual sex - are well known tantric techniques practiced by Yogis traditionally in Indian history.

Gandhi modified the technique. He did not do any ritual sex. In fact he did not practice any sex at all if he could help it - or so he professed - he even recorded his wet dreams and any lapses in concentration in his self denial - in his diaries and even in local newspapers. 

You can say the old world equivalent of a blog?

But he also thought it gave him magical powers - which is not a desirable quality in a national leader (if he is weird and wacky).

I have read his experiments with truth and found it most underwhelming. Pathetic actually.

But there is nothing there to indicate any gay tendencies - his "experiments" were always with girls (young adolescent ones and never his own wife AFAIK)

This gay theory is most likely sensationalization to drive the book sales of a recent release.


Edited by Venkytalks - 31-Jan-2013 at 08:15
Venky
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 08:56
Originally posted by Venkytalks

Gandhi definitely slept in the same bed as adolescent girls - naked - and to my mind it is definitely weird and unacceptable.

He did so openly. It was the topic of much discussion and outrage in the late 1930s when he did so.

His thinking was this - he believed that the denial of his sexual urges gave him some kind of magical powers (or spiritual power or the power of tapasya). He thought these magical powers increased the effect of his fasting protests against the British rule.

Denial and control of sexual urges - as well as engaging in ritual sex - are well known tantric techniques practiced by Yogis traditionally in Indian history.

Gandhi modified the technique. He did not do any ritual sex. In fact he did not practice any sex at all if he could help it - or so he professed - he even recorded his wet dreams and any lapses in concentration in his self denial - in his diaries and even in local newspapers. 

You can say the old world equivalent of a blog?

But he also thought it gave him magical powers - which is not a desirable quality in a national leader (if he is weird and wacky).

I have read his experiments with truth and found it most underwhelming. Pathetic actually.

But there is nothing there to indicate any gay tendencies - his "experiments" were always with girls (young adolescent ones and never his own wife AFAIK)

This gay theory is most likely sensationalization to drive the book sales of a recent release.
That is very interesting, Venkytalks, as him professing himself of his sexual desires while sleeping with adolescent girls shows him to have probable tendencies towards being a paedophile, and not towards being gay. Although I guess sleeping with young girls could have been a ruse if he had no interest towards the female form.

Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 31-Jan-2013 at 09:00
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 19:44
I knew Gandhi was a racist but wasn't aware of his pedophilia. How old were the girls he allegedly raped?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 19:53
Originally posted by Nick1986

I knew Gandhi was a racist but wasn't aware of his pedophilia. How old were the girls he allegedly raped?
This is a little something I found on the subject, Nick.

The third example is a more modern holy man, Mahatma Gandhi.  Gandhi was married at age 13 to a girl about his own age and at age 37 took a vow of sexual abstinence.  In spite of this vow, he found a need to fondle prepubescent and early adolescent girls.  He took such girls to bed with him to overcome, he said, his "shivering fits" in the night.  His female companions, who came from his inner circle — all certified virgins or young brides — entered his bed naked in order to warm him with their bodies.  Some of them also administered enemas to him.  Among the young girls, there was rivalry as to who would sleep with him, and one of his girl disciples reported that his bed companions had a difficult time in restraining their sexual impulses since he often rubbed against them and touched them in erotic places.  Although his closemouthed house guardians were fearful of public reaction if news of these "pedophilic" sexual interactions were publicized, Gandhi continued to engage in them until his death.  Gandhi did not have sexual intercourse with them, but obviously the touching and feeling were very important to him.  If he had lived in the United States, he would have been sentenced as a child molester (Bullough, 1981).
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume8/j8_2_1.htm
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Venkytalks View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 15-Jan-2013
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 82 		  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2013 at 06:48
Originally posted by Nick1986

I knew Gandhi was a racist but wasn't aware of his pedophilia. How old were the girls he allegedly raped?

There is nothing to suggest he was racist or gay.

He was definitely not a pedophile - he had young, usually already married female "volunteer" sleep in his bed in his ashram. The most common one was Manu who was his grand niece. Women were falling over themselves to "volunteer" and Sushila and Abha were other volunteers - people used to fight over who would sleep in his room. The sleeping room (hardly a bedroom in the traditional sense) were kept open and anybody from the ashram could wander in whenever they wanted. There are many reported instances where Gandhi's secretary or other people wandered in and were shocked to find Gandhi sleeping with a naked lady.

Some of the descriptions above are certainly sensationalizing the issue - keeping the descriptions purposely titillating to evoke the worst suspicions. However, it is true that Gandhi liked to hug and stroke people including these young naked girls.

There is sufficient evidence that there was never any sexual activity in these experiments. 

There is sufficient evidence in fact that in the last 40-50 years of his life, Gandhi did not have ANY sexual activity at all - and his long suffering wife had to put up with this !!!! In all probability, Gandhi was impotent after he turned 40 but he had stopped sexual activity before this.

Gandhi was a very very busy and public figure and his ashram was usually thronged by hundreds every day. He hardly got to sleep a couple of hours at night on a mat on the floor.

Gandhi wanted to control and sublimate his sexual desires and wanted to make it more difficult by indulging in these weird experiments - or so I guess and others have also said the same - jumping from that to pedophile is unfair and unjustified.

There is no allegation that he raped anybody.

He was just a weird fellow with weird ideas - and in my own mind, it was wrong of Gandhi to have done this.

Another weird activity was to have his body massaged by ladies. Again, I find it difficult to digest this also - how do we know that Gandhi did not fake his "experiences" and was secretly enjoying himself? How do we know that in his impotence, he was not having whatever sexual experience was possible for him?

But again, weird is not same as racist/pedophile/gay and such characterisations of Gandhi are unfair. All these girls were also above the (then) age of consent. As I said - the girls fought over who would get to sleep with him.

As to whether their husbands had a say in the matter - or what they thought of the situation - that is another question.

We are clearly talking about a very dysfunctional group of individuals


Edited by Venkytalks - 01-Feb-2013 at 07:20
Venky
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2013 at 08:34
Venkytalks, here is a link to a video on youtube, suggesting a number of things about Gandhi. Be aware that the language on the video is of an adult quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRV8PYDIa8I
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Venkytalks View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 15-Jan-2013
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 82 		  Quote Venkytalks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2013 at 04:26
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Venkytalks, here is a link to a video on youtube, suggesting a number of things about Gandhi. Be aware that the language on the video is of an adult quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRV8PYDIa8I

Link is blocked on my work computer. Will see later. But as I said earlier, sensational outrageous statements are common about Gandhi, but usually untrue.

BTW, if you dont mind, can you tell me something about what Alani Dragon is? Is it referring to some famous fictional dragon or some such?
Venky
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2013 at 09:18
Gandi hated blacks. This is getting a little off topic, but he saw them as animals and resented having to share his prison cell with them
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4734 		  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2013 at 16:44
From what I'm gathering here there is a serious culture diffeneces between the way Gandhi's actions were done and seen in his own culture ad the interpretation in a purely Western way of thinking. Mixing cultural patterns and innterpreteing them interchangingy is a quite un-historical way of thinking and more in the line of some sensation-seeking. We should interpret the actions of historical personages within the milieu of thei own tie and culture, not in the one norms of some other.
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2013 at 04:27
Originally posted by Nick1986

Gandi hated blacks. This is getting a little off topic, but he saw them as animals and resented having to share his prison cell with them
There is little doubt that Gandhi's views on black people, expressed in his own words, are racist, Nick, but was it an expression of cultural racism, or institutional racism he was projecting? Some have said his views were held until he was mistreated himself by whites in South Africa, thought there's little doubt some of the things he said were after he had been harshly treated and jailed for standing up for civil right, though obviously not for the local black population's civil rights.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2013 at 16:03
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by Nick1986

Gandi hated blacks. This is getting a little off topic, but he saw them as animals and resented having to share his prison cell with them
There is little doubt that Gandhi's views on black people, expressed in his own words, are racist, Nick, but was it an expression of cultural racism, or institutional racism he was projecting? Some have said his views were held until he was mistreated himself by whites in South Africa, thought there's little doubt some of the things he said were after he had been harshly treated and jailed for standing up for civil right, though obviously not for the local black population's civil rights.

Perhaps his negative experiences with a few black prisoners resulted in him discriminating against all blacks? In response to whites putting him down because of his skin color, he may have been racist towards darker skinned people to regain his self-esteem
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2013 at 16:30
Originally posted by Nick1986


Perhaps his negative experiences with a few black prisoners resulted in him discriminating against all blacks? In response to whites putting him down because of his skin color, he may have been racist towards darker skinned people to regain his self-esteem
Yes, Nick, it is a known thing that some people who have been abused then go on to abuse. I don't see why that should not include racist beliefs.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4734 		  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2013 at 08:40
Considering that India always had caste system, I suppose feeking that people are different is a very much part of the culture; so may ne his refusal to share his cell with blacks was due to this cultural trait, not to personal malice, or abuse, or such.
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2013 at 03:05
Gandhi's approach to caste, IMHO, was hypocritical, in as far as in one breath he's espousing a certain equality by stating, in regards to Indians, we are all Indians. Yet his views on caste are as follows:  
"If the lower caste people leave their ancestral professions and adopt another profession, their expectations will rise and they will lose their mental balance and ultimately their family’s peace will be destroyed." Hindi Swaraj

"A Shudra can’t be called a Brahmin even if he possesses all the qualities of a Brahmin by inheritance.  He should never claim his right other than the Varna in which he was born.  This is an evidence of his being humble." Young India (11-24-27)

"As per the Hindu Scriptures if a person adopts any other profession in place of his family profession, he commits violence and he renders himself to meanness by not following his ancestral profession." Young India (11-31-27)

"As the time goes on every day my belief in the Varna System is strengthening that  man has no existence without it.  Therefore, the Moslems and the Christians must follow this system; as it is as mandatory for them as it is necessary for the Hindus, to maintain social harmony."  Round Table Conf., l922

"I will oppose the separation of the Untouchables from the caste Hindus even at the cost of my life.  The problems of the Untouchables have no relevance or important before it." Round Table, London, l932

I call myself a Samatany Hindu who has deep faith in the caste system." Dharem Manthau, p. 6

"I believe in caste division on the basis of birth because the roots of the caste system start from birth." Verana Vayavstha, p. 77

"Four castes (chaturvanuya) are the four stages of human life which springs from birth." Dharam Manthou , p.6

"Caste means pre-ordained profession.  Caste suggests to a man that he should adopt the profession of his forefathers to earn his livelihood." Varam Vayastha. P. 65

"I feel that the western culture, which is the product of devils, has shattered our caste system." Dharan Manthan p. 65

"How is it possible that a low caste can enter into all the existing temples? Until the caste system is supreme in the Hindu religion, not every Hindu can enter into all Hindu temples". Gandhi, Shirao, ch. 11,  p. 132 

"According to me, the caste system is scientific. You cannot condemn it by argument.  It controls the society socially and ethnically—I see no reason to end it.  To end casteism is to finish the Hindu Religion.  There is nothing against Varnastram.  I have reason to believe that the caste system is an arithmetic principle.  It has its own limitation and disadvantages. Even then there is nothing to be hated in this system." Harijan, l932 (Translation from a Lower Caste tract circulated among Scheduled Castes and OBCs)

http://www.truthseekersinternational.org/gandhi-the-caste-system-it-may-surprise-you/

Gandhi himself was of the Vaishye caste, which Hindu texts say their duties include cattle rearing and other pastoral activities, productive labour, agriculture and trade. This then doesn't indicate a reason why the racial discrimination by him towards black people in terms of social position in society, especially as Gandhi was seemingly fine with Dalits, otherwise known as untouchables. 
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.