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Mortaza
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Topic: Forgotten craftsmen who built Taj Mahal Posted: 28-Oct-2005 at 13:02 |
Rakhsh Ustad Isa himself was almost legendary guy. Knowledge about him is not much. Even we are not sure he is even chief architect, different cites say different things. Some says he was persian, some says he was Turk, and some says, he is not even chief architect. For Italian architects, well dont take it much serious.
For Dome building, Well It is normal, Ottoman architects interested big domes much. Infact That is why they respect ayasofia much. Mimar sinan build a bigger dome than aya sofia, and I think his main aim is not build a beatiful mosque but to overcome aya sofia dome.
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Rakhsh
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 01:28 |
Ustad Isa (Agra/Shiraz), as you know in the old days you put the city your from in your name, just as you clamed rum was a place in Turley the fact he had Shirazi as part of his full name indicates he is from the city of Shiraz., we cannot take Italians helping in it seriously at all, the Islamic world was far ahead of europe during this time in science, engineering, architecture and mathamatics, all Italy had was artists who could paint.
I mean no offence but this is part of a Pan-turkism, it is not just one source that states he was Persian but many.
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Zagros
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 05:47 |
The Ottoman architect was an Armenian I hear. Is that true?
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 06:04 |
Ismail Khan seems to be Muslim name...
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[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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Zagros
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 06:15 |
I read in another thread on this site, I can't remember which one, but the Turkish guys were talking about Taj Mahal and one said the architect was a Turk from Istanbul and another guy cut in and said he was actually Armenian. Maybe someone who took part can clarify.
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azimuth
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 06:17 |
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Zagros
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 06:41 |
wacky stuff, apparently, though I don;t know if this is blind anti-islamic propganda, the taj mahal was built over a hindu temple site.
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azimuth
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 07:10 |
not only the site but the building itself
its original name was TejoMahalay signifying a Shiva Temple !!
i see that they are working very hard to make this a belivable nonsense lol
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Rakhsh
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 07:42 |
Yes nationalism propoganda at its best. Look at the design. Even though I am not muslim I can see clearly this is a building inspired and created by Muslims regardless of their ethnicity.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 09:32 |
Rakhsh
I dont interest with panturkism, as you said some cites say he is persian and some say he is not. It looks like his race is unknown. I am not saying he was turk or not.
Armenians were good architect, but I am not sure If architect of Taj Mahal is armenian or not. If he was devsirme (most probably) he can be any race, be armenian, albanian, bosnian or greek.(Well except ethnic Muslim Turks)
For Mimar Sinan, Greeks say he is greek, and armenians say he is armenian. So I dont think we have a good knowledge about Ismail Khan too. Also Khan was not much used in ottoman Turks. a little weird.
When We are calling him as Turk, we mostly main not ethnically but culturaly.Even If all of them comes from armenian stock, their culture was Ottoman-Turkish culture.
Infact If Armenians or other claim this guys as their, It is not problem. But They should claim ottomans as their too. Because they were ottomans and Unfortunately, It was only Turkey and somehow bosnia, who accept ottoman empire as their own.
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Rakhsh
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Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 19:07 |
Mortaza I was refering to Azimuth's post on the Taj Mal being a hindu temple. I understand where you are coming from, I have read various sources to the cheif architects origins, I am convinced he is Persian, however it does not matter really at this point. We should agree to disagree and move on because I do not want to argue or go on and on I will just chose to believe what I do from what i read and make my own mind up.
but the important thing is the forgotten people who helped build it and thier sacrifice, now their work and this place built for love and ended in cruelty is being destroyed by nationalism, and its history used as propoganda to appease the agendas of the ignorant power hungry wolves.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 30-Oct-2005 at 11:45 |
Well even it is a beatiful building, I dont think it consist much love, building that type of building mostly cost others money and life.
By the way, what do you mean with destroyed by nationalism? do india harmed it?
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Rakhsh
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Posted: 30-Oct-2005 at 18:07 |
Hindu nationalism is claiming all kinds of things, ie that is is a hindu temple. it is a tomb.
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Rakhsh
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Posted: 30-Oct-2005 at 18:09 |
ohh and the claim of the architect being not Persian..... many other factors
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The Hidden Face
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Posted: 30-Oct-2005 at 19:00 |
Originally posted by Zagros
I read in another thread on this site, I can't remember
which one, but the Turkish guys were talking about Taj Mahal and
one said the architect was a Turk from Istanbul and another guy cut in
and said he was actually Armenian. Maybe someone who took part can
clarify. |
You are talking about Mimar Sinan.
Taj Mahal looks like Persian architectural style. But It is a work of Islamic world. Do not nationalize. Many workers were from Ottoman Empire.
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Darkness1089
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Posted: 30-Oct-2005 at 22:18 |
Actually they can make that argument. If you look around the structure,
you can find traces of destroyed statues of elephants and such, which
is a predominantly Rajput style, not Persian, or Turkic style.
The entire building couldn't have been converted but its quite possible
that the muslims used a captured temple complex to build this Icon. The
name isn't Islamic either. Taj Mahal is not found in persian as far as
I know.
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Rakhsh
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Posted: 31-Oct-2005 at 05:14 |
Actually Taj Mahal is found in Farsi, what is your source... see your nationalising this. It is Very Islamic, what elephants? Do you not think Iran had Elephants in its army?
I think this again is nationalistic propoganda, like we said please stop it. It is A persian Design, Indians, Persians, Turks and Arabs worked on this that is a fact. There is alot of proof for it. As for their arguement (very unscholarly but...) it is all lies.....
Thankd for you input Darkness1087 you are now asked by me nicely, stop, birng something more, thank you, have a nice day
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Behi
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Posted: 31-Oct-2005 at 08:19 |
This building is Composition artwork from Indian, Iranian, Arabs & Turks. but without any Nationalistic view, It based on Iranian Foundation.
Just, Compare main dome with Sheikh LotfAllah ones in Esfahan http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5779& ; ;PN=1 !9
& pool & Side of "Sarve Shirazi" cedars tree is type of Iranian garden.
3d Recreation of Persepolise
Baghe Shazde, Shahdad, Kerman, Iran
Hamame Fin, Kashan, Esfahan, Iran
Baghe Eram, Shiraz, Iran
Narenjestan, Shiraz, Iran
Chehel soton, Esfahan, Iran
Naghshe Jahan, Esfahan, Iran
Baghe Delgosha, Shiraz, Iran
Edited by Land of Aryan
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Rakhsh
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Posted: 31-Oct-2005 at 18:55 |
Wow beautiful , I found it even better then the Taj Mahal... but I guess I am just being Bias!
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Itihaas
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Posted: 31-Oct-2005 at 22:42 |
Originally posted by Rakhsh
Actually Taj Mahal is found in Farsi, what is your source... see your nationalising this. It is Very Islamic, what elephants? Do you not think Iran had Elephants in its army?
I think this again is nationalistic propoganda, like we said please stop it. It is A persian Design, Indians, Persians, Turks and Arabs worked on this that is a fact. There is alot of proof for it. As for their arguement (very unscholarly but...) it is all lies.....
Thankd for you input Darkness1087 you are now asked by me nicely, stop, birng something more, thank you, have a nice day
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Where is the Farsi source for Taj Mahal? I have heard from some sources that a few Indian muslims believe that it was a Hindu building (they are of course BJP muslims leaders so that does change some things).
Anyway you can't ignore a theory because you don't like it or its too nationalistic. We are all intellectuals here, you have to analyze it before you say something.
Oh and by the way the Indian gov't banned all research regarding proving the Taj Mahal as a temple.
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