Forgotten craftsmen who built Taj Mahal

Originally posted by jayeshks Originally posted by AP Singh 1. My last two posts are related to taz mahal since a comparison of the armies of the Gurjar Emperor,Mihir Bhoja Mahan who bulit the Shiva temple and the Mughal emperor Akbar, when this empire was its peak, the dynasty, which rebuilt Taz Mahal on Shiva temple was questioned by one of the forum member. The information was provided for him. Probably you may not have read the earlier posts and called it a spam. It really was spam, almost every one of your posts finds some abstract way to reference some Gujjar person.� Anyhow, it's besides the point. 2. I have seen many tombs but only one in the name of one person where the person is buried. Mumtaz Mahal was certainly not Saint Kabir Das where there was a dispute between his Hindu disciples and Muslim disciples to get control of his dead body and perform the lasts rites according to their own customs. Yes it is supposed to be unique, that's why it's special So there is no question of using names of Hindu Gods like OM in her memorial which can still be seen in Taz mahal.So it was a Hindu temple. 3. No, You have taken me wrong. I dont expect all Muslims and for that matter any body irrespective of the the religion, to do the same but would expect that a new memorial tomb should be built where the person is actually buried since that is actual the resting place and certainly not to use an existing structure and that too a place of worship. In no manner you can call an existing place a memorial of the person, which was built 100s of years ago before the death of the person even after its renovation/alteration. You mean rebuilding? 4. Now you are deviating from the point. Discuss only taz mahal and not hundreds of other buildings. 5.In a new constrution the old building is completely demolished. If it is not done the structure can not be called as newly constructed structure irrespective of the volume of renovations/alterations. Here are views of various scholars to support that it was an existing structure. i. Prof. Marvin Miller of New York took a few samples from the riverside doorway of the Taj. Carbon dating tests revealed that the door was 300 years older than Shah Jahan. ii. European traveler Johan Albert Mandelslo,who visited Agra in 1638 (only seven years after Mumtaz's death), describes the life of the city in his memoirs. But he makes no reference to the Taj Mahal being built. iii. The writings of Peter Mundy, an English visitor to Agra within a year of Mumtaz's death, also suggest the Taj was a noteworthy building well before Shah Jahan's time. Ok answer me this then.� What part of the Taj was a Hindu temple and what part was 'renovated' as you keep implying?� A couple of stories about an om here and there don't exactly explain away everything else in the structure that is so obviously Muslim.

Take one by one point. I pointed out that the Building did not belong to the Raja of Jai Pur. Raja of Jai Pur was not at all significant at the time of the battle between Babar and Rana Sanga, since the Gwalior was ruled by Tanwars, Mewat was ruled by Hasan Khan Mewati, Agra was probably under control of Delhi Sultnate, Alwar was ruled by Badgujars. Hence Agra was completely isolated from Jai Pur when this territory came under the control of Mughals.
I have provided historical evidences that the big garden and Shiva temple where Taz mahal is erected was built by Gurjar Samrat Mihir Bhoja or Bhoja the Great.Now tell me where do you have objection to this historical fact? Not only that Delhi was founded by his fuedatory, the Gujjar Tanwars, and Bhopal was also founded (as Bhoj Pal) by one of his fuedatories called Gujjar Parmars and Agra is in between the two places. Another Gujjar clan named Chadelas were ruling Kalinjar as his fuedatory and in this mannere theAgra was completely surrounded by his fuedatories. Do you feel this post is also unrelated.



    
    
    
    

Edited by AP Singh - 11-Nov-2006 at 04:04

What about the Carbon dating test done by Prof Marvin Miller of New york revealing that the part of construction was more than 300 hundred year older than Shah Jahan.

I guess that the most probable answer will be "That is why it is unique".
Probably Shahajahan did not expect that his son Aurangjeb will put him in jail and rest of his life he has to spend only with Jahanara and need only one room. I guess that may be the reason.
    
    

Edited by AP Singh - 13-Nov-2006 at 06:56

I think archaeological evidences do not help Shajahan.

When I visited Taj, I could note all the points made out.

In fact, the Kutub Minar complex is nothing but a South Indian temple complex, as I could see the interior is just like that. Only, the super structure appears as Minar. The carved pillars, the geometrically placed lintels leading to Gopura like capola etc., has been typical.

Above all, the idols and sculptures strewn all around are intriguing. Now, the Ganesa idol found there has been caged i.e, put inside a iron-grilled box with lock and key! Some 15 years back, it was just lying there.

So, Whoever built the Taj, he has done an excellent work on the earth. The workers have shed their sweat and blood. Let us praise and rembember those workers, instead of arguing or fighting for their names, religion etc.

Originally posted by T.SELVAM I request Persian-knowing friends to translate into English, so that all can verify the facts, as it has bearing on the discussion:   The Badshahnama Documentary evidence from Mogul records showing clearly how the Taj was acquired from Raja Mansingh   The Badshahnama, written by the emperor's own paid chronicler, Mullah Abdul Hamid Lahori provides evidence of the Taj's existence and was acquisitioned by Shahjahan. The relevant passage states: The site covered with a majestic lush garden to the south of that city and amidst which (garden) the building known as the palace manzil of Raja Mansingh,at present owned by his grandson, Raja Jaisingh, was selected for the burial of the queen .The badshahnama shown here obtained from .National Archives , Govt of India. .Its available from all important institutional .libraries dealing with Indian Mediaeval History.

I heard there were also some records of craftsmen who were paid money by the mughal court for services such as making tyles, engravings and floor and wall plates of the interior and exterior. Have you come across those records?

As per the the Badshahnama, written by the emperor's own paid chronicler, Mullah Abdul Hamid Lahori provided evidence of the Taj's existence and was acquisitioned by Shahjahan from Raja man Singh. 

 I would like to know how  the palace, the earlier garden of Mihir Bhoja the Great, was acquired by Raja Man Singh himself or was it  gifted to his forefathers by Akbar the Great in exchange of his marriage to Jodha bai or was it won by him and from whom? As far as history of his forefathers goes, at the time of the Babars invasion, they were not even having the complete control of Jaipur from Meenas, the original rulers of the place without the help of Akbar, the ( husband of his fathers sister) of Man Singh, leave aside to take the control of Agra which is quite far away.

Edited by AP Singh - 09-Feb-2007 at 07:27

So basically Shah Jahan took a temple or castle and put tiles and flooring on it and did a little bit of remodelling? I am surprised this has not been comprehensibly covered and reported already. 

Is there any drawing of how it looked before it took the form of what we now know as the "Taj Mahal".

Irrespective of the criticism heaped on P. N. Oak, definitely, he is who, perhaps for the first time raised the issue long back.

Is anyone at all interested in presenting FACTS rather than arrogant emotional outbursts? This should not be too hard to figure out if all the facts are laid out.  So far it seems to me that a great deal of the Taj Mahal, including its actual foundations must have been built by someone prior to Shah Jahan. Also obviously there are some solid records of craftsmen retiling and remodelling[at the very least] the Taj Mahal to a more persian and ottoman flavor but since Shah Jahan was the ruler...surely he would not have "lost" all the records if he had built it from scratch so they must be around somewhere right?

Or maybe everyone wants to speculate for the next 10 pages because its more fun?