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Zulu Movie Myths

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  Quote Kevinmeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Zulu Movie Myths
    Posted: 15-Jul-2014 at 18:56
Another 'mistake' or omission in the film is the local South African Cavalry who refuse to stand and fight with them. Firstly they were Black African troopers not white as shown in the film. They did stay and fight but broke almost immediately the Zulu appeared.

What is shown in the film (as the cavalry stream by not by the pleas of a Swedish missionary) are the African infantry fleeing as well but what is not is their European NCO's ran as well or that the redcoats opened fired upon them as they ran killing at least one-- as it happens a European NCO.

Another film myth is Commissary Dalton is shown as 'upper class' pen pusher who can not handle his rifle in reality he was ex senior NCO reemployed because he knew how to deal with civilian contractors who'd try to 'rob the army blind' and all the ticks of the Quartermasters.

As a civilian he was initially refused a VC but there was uproar among the defenders because he was at the heart of the defence, indeed some historians give him the credit and not Chard of organising the defence ( I think a little unfairly but Dalton was at the centre of things).

A true episode is when he calmly asks "Pot that fellow somebody" it is reported he said that as a Zulu was about to kill him but not because he didn't know how to use his rifle but rather he had a blockage and was a sign of his calmness. He then cleared it and kept up an accurate fire (think he was an ex instructor).
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  Quote Kevinmeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2013 at 18:18
Originally posted by Mountain Man


redcoats break and run? bullshit they formed rally companies and fought to the end.

Even the companies caught in line with no chance to form square formed pathetic little groups back to back-- at least that's what the Zulu said.No doubt some of therm did, but the Zulus could see only their small [portion of the battle, obscured by dust and gunpowder and men struggling to kill each other.  What we do know is that an entire modern military force of some 1500 trained soldiers was nevertheless wiped out to a man by Zulus equipped with nothing but spears...not one of Britain's finest hours.


Well the Zulus did state that the redcoats did not run but kept formation and the positioning of the bodies would agree.

The 1800 troops at Isandlwana, only 600 or so were redcoats then the rest 'local forces' ranging from well equipped colonial cavalry (white and Black African) to at best moderate and poorly armed (1 in 10 had a rifle) Black African infantry.

25 percent of the Zulu were armed with guns --of very 'mixed' quality it has to be said-- so in the unlike film the Rocket troop (disgracefully left isolated by Durnford) are not over run by a 'black mass of warriors' but rather cut down by a huge volley.

The camp was poorly laid out designed to be defended by at least 2 battalions of redcoats (if it was designed at all which many doubt such was the arrogance of the British Staff officers, much to the dismay of the officers of the 24th) but Chelmsford marched half the troops off.

It is however open to debate whether any other European army would have faired any better against the Zulu.
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2013 at 23:37
As for fighting to the end, considering the place and time, this is quite believable. White men out on the High Veldt. Yes, not much chance of survival with all those Zulus about. This wasn't, after all, a typical European battlefield with all kinds of armies and uniforms mucking about. Surviving on your own was nearly impossible. Certainly better to hang together and try to fight it out.

I believe that was also the motivating factor in the Foreign Legion stand at Cameron. Unless you could pass for a Mexican, and even this was subject to challenge to verify that you were on the right side, it was better to fight for as long as you could.
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2013 at 18:50

redcoats break and run? bullshit they formed rally companies and fought to the end.

Even the companies caught in line with no chance to form square formed pathetic little groups back to back-- at least that's what the Zulu said.

No doubt some of therm did, but the Zulus could see only their small [portion of the battle, obscured by dust and gunpowder and men struggling to kill each other.  What we do know is that an entire modern military force of some 1500 trained soldiers was nevertheless wiped out to a man by Zulus equipped with nothing but spears...not one of Britain's finest hours.
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  Quote Kevinmeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2013 at 19:03
Originally posted by Mountain Man

A classic film, as is its companion epic Zulu Dawn about the defeat at Islandwhana.



I didn't like that film even less accurate than Zulu.

redcoats break and run? bullshit they formed rally companies and fought to the end.

Even the companies caught in line with no chance to form square formed pathetic little groups back to back-- at least that's what the Zulu said.
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2013 at 13:37
A classic film, as is its companion epic Zulu Dawn about the defeat at Islandwhana.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2013 at 17:16
Originally posted by Kevinmeath

I am not sure I would go along with 'decent types' but certainly no worse or better than anyone else.
 
They didn't take prisoners-- what do you want a prisoner for? but niether did the British
 
They killed wounded found but so did the Boers and the British.
 
They 'washed spears' to be part of the 'kill' so it can be seen as a mark of respect.

I guess there were practical reasons for such butchery: killing a helpless enemy prevents him recovering and killing you
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2013 at 19:15
Well, it can certainly be said that they never did anything to others that they did not expect would be done to themselves. But then, when your chief can simply crush your skull to show visitors that he has the power of life and death over you, you grow up with different values.
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  Quote Kevinmeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2013 at 18:23
I am not sure I would go along with 'decent types' but certainly no worse or better than anyone else.
 
They didn't take prisoners-- what do you want a prisoner for? but niether did the British
 
They killed wounded found but so did the Boers and the British.
 
They 'washed spears' to be part of the 'kill' so it can be seen as a mark of respect.
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2013 at 13:48
Nick, if don't understand why the Zulus butchered, then you've read very little about them. I would suggest "The Washing of the Spears". In a 19th Century African context, they were fairly decent types.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2013 at 10:17
The Zulus were brave warriors, but i never understood why they butchered the wounded. A helpless enemy posed no threat to them
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  Quote Kevinmeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2013 at 17:14
Well one thing that is not shown in the film is Private Joeseph Willams as the Zulu takes the Hospital he (a new recruit along with his friend John Williams who works to help the patients escape and get the VC) bayonet charges along the corridor driving the Zulu back, and holds the doorway with bullet and bayonet.
 
He is eventually ceased and hacked to death.
 
His corpse is bably mutilated and is taken by the British as a sign of savagry but may well have been the Zulu wish to dip their spear into a lion-- effectively a tribute to a brave warrior.
 
It was said that he would have been awarded the VC had he lived(official papers say so) but there were no posthumous awards then -- two Anglo-Irish Officers at the same time Melvill and Coghill had families who purseued the war office to award their brave sons posthumous VC's from actions not far away, working class Joseph Williams had no such champions.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2012 at 19:40
Originally Michael Caine was going to play Hook. But the director took one look at him and cast him as an officer
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  Quote JohnAshtone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2012 at 09:21

It was easier from a film making point of view and clearness of story to make the Regiment Welsh, just look at the list of V.C.s the majority are Welshman.

 
I have just been reading Byron Farwell's Queen Victoria's Little Wars, and was fully aware that most of the action took place at night, however from a filmmakers point of view it becomes complicated, so for ease of story one makes it during daylight.
 
Lt. Gonville Bromhead was short and dark, and not very intelligent, however he was from a military Family. 
 
As films go Zulu gets the essence, also it shows the Zulus point of view and not in a bad light, as most people get the impression that the Zulus were as put upon by the Christian Missionaries as by the British trying to stop slavery, and bring Laws and trade.
 
And as for Hookies portrayel, I would still have preferred James Booth running the Country as Hook, instead of that wretched Son in law of his Tony B. Liar lol.
 
Still a 5* film warts and all.
 
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2012 at 19:11
Regardless of its imperialistic message, i enjoyed Zulu. It's a bit like a British western
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  Quote Michael Mckean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 18:34
There are a number of innacuracies in Zulu, still an amazing film though.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2012 at 19:04

The helmets of the British soldiers wouldn't have been white. They were dyed with tea to make the wearer less of an easy target
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 19:20
Harry Hook's daughters were outraged when he was depicted as a rogue and drunk. In reality he was a model soldier who never drank alcohol
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 17:20
Concur with Toltec.
The gap between hollywood and historical accuracy, in general, is legendary in most occasions. That the good curator is pointing that out is not a serious threat to the valor of heroism on both sides that day. Matter of fact I ken his pain.
 
As a Soldier-historian, he no doubt prizes accuracy and concise factual examination in the detail of the reporting of the action. Nothing wrong with that.
 
That unfortunately doesn't sell tickets nor does it support the glorification of a screenwriter.
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  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 13:50
This doesn't seem to be much of a criticism, I've heard much worse. It's a very accurate movie by the standards of any other movie out there, but those stardards are painfully low.
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