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Was the cult of Great Mother exchanged with Jesus?

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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was the cult of Great Mother exchanged with Jesus?
    Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 03:14
Originally posted by medenaywe

It looks logical cause words are still in usage!Even MoNa Lisa has Mother's name inside!Also English A Moon
is still part of every days life!It  was  one of the moon's  phases!If i still have not posted this read it now:
http://www.archive.org/stream/TheLunarContextOfTheHekatFractions/Abstract5#page/n0/mode/2up
 

This looks like a great source, thanks, I'm gonna read it tomorrow.
The Moon, the months, the menses. In Bulgarian and Russian "Moon" is "Luna", but the older Bulgarian word is "mesechina" and the months are "meseci", /in Russian "mesiacui"/, which came from Moon; in Ancient Greek month is "men"/+"os" in plural /μεν(+ος in plural)/. The Moon was connected with Mother Goddess from time immemorial. In Rome for a long time it was believed that women get pregnant if they sleep under a full Moon, which is a remnant from the Mother-Goddess self-insemination; and the females' cycle coincides with the Moon's so it added to the connection - full Moon=full woman.
Besides the Mother Goddess never died, she only morphed - from Inanna to the Virgin Mary.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 03:22
Originally posted by medenaywe

Let us search some other elements that Christianity had borrowed from former Mother's religious cult Don!
Let me post her Ankh,symbol of Life.Therefore we put this on our tombs as good luck in Dead one's afterlife?



This looks so much like a cross. It is loaded with Mother-Goddess' symbols - snakes, bird-wings/since the bird was a Mother-Goddess symbol since the paleolithic, and passed into Christianity as the Holy Ghost/; and the pharaoh looks like he is  basking in those symbols, being under their protection.
 I'll follow with some research on it tomorrow, I have to grab some rack, it's well passed midnight here. Good night, worldSleepy.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 03:31
Yes,Don this is link which scientific approach is valuable for me!ANKH preserves His meaning:Victim-like
mother's(You,carrier of Ankh),(Ankh)equals with arrow!Which arrow is this???Arrow of Thoth,God of Time!Man I am hilarious!(Further Danayan's culture would have exchanged it with Cronos's scythe)
Look at the concept and symbolism above:If you curve Bow of Time,Arrow could not hit you,Time stays and life is endless!Cronos in Egyptian concept has a Bow not a scythe as in further Danayan's Med Sea culture.





Edited by medenaywe - 26-Feb-2012 at 09:21
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 03:50
That means that concept for immortality in after life in Egypt,was exchanged with Cross we use in Life&
after life without mummifications!Ankh's bow's ends just were further pressed in line!in fact Jesus carries
broken Ankh as proof of his mortality!T letter matches with it,first Roman crosses:






Edited by medenaywe - 10-Feb-2012 at 04:52
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 14:31
Right hand Keeps the House,Alani!Right hand sign was religious sign for Mother's!Crook in right hand means:I believer in Mother give Her to leads my hand&land of Egypt!Above Tut's coffin in right hand we can see Flail,mark of Snake God,the Sun/AToN(NaAToN!?!)!Because king Tut had rejected His father's new religion,coffin did not belong to him:It was his father coffin with his non biological mother's face.There was possibility that coffin was his mother's all.But inscriptions on coffin would have revealed that long time ago.Masters in Gold just had changed Nefretiti's golden face mask with Akhenaten's,I suppose here!Take it as one possible solution.There are people that can prove it:true or false!Let us talk
about Ankh,frozen arrow of life,you carry as a talisman!Ankh prevents Chronos's bow,swinging it's ends,you to be hit!In fact long vertical part is arrow of your life that hits you at the end always.But with magic spells of Ankh you prevent it.SmileLittle trick for Cronus,God of Time,with small modification will become mark of new religion=Cross.



Edited by medenaywe - 09-Feb-2012 at 02:12
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 15:21
The cross is just another representation of the Tree of Life, I posted pictures following this development of symbolism earlier here. That the Ankh and the cross are the same symbol doesn't contradict that they are in the same time the tree of life, in fact is strenghtens it. As for the Bow of Time and the arrow of Cronos - this sounds very interesting, and poetic too. There is a reason why the mathematical sign for infinity is the bow
File:Infinity symbol.svg
I didn't think about this before, but it goes into itself and hence is endless, a perfect illustration of the idea; this concept sounds even more poignant if I think in Bulgarian, because the Bulgarian word for infinity is a Greek calque, meaning "endlessness"; the Greek word is, AFAIK "apeiron" meaning "without bounds"; the English one is a borrowed word from Latin - "infinitus" meaning the same as the Greek one, because the Latin one was a Greek calque to start with. Did the Egyptians have a mathematical word for "infinity"?

I probably can derive "cross" from "Cronus" in less than 5 linguistic steps, but I'll do it on the Origin of Languages thread, here it's off OP. The Latin word for cross is "crux", the Greek "staupos" /that was used in the New Testament, and translated  as "cross"/ means "stake" or "pole". While there seems to have to connection between "crux" and "stauros", t seems to me that "Cronos" and "stauros" may well be connected, and I'll try to explore that later on the language thread.

 Granted, the cross became a symbol of Christianity because Christ was put on it, and the Romans were using it for quite a long time as a torture/death-tool; but, how did it come to be used as a torture/death tool on the first place, and why is the cross so important anyway, only because Jesus died on it? Only death is not enough, the meaning of life was superimposed on it, that's why it became symbol of life, not of death; and I suspect that there are more than one avenue of thought that brought to the cross being the Tree of Life, and this is not a surprise, because usually the cultural archetypes are the crosspoint of several different ideas in different times that develop one and the same, or close in meaning, main idea and image.



Edited by Don Quixote - 08-Feb-2012 at 15:31
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 15:42
Infinity is very twisted term in mathematics cause you can not measure it!Accept it as our Life,without asking why?But look here:KRSTo=Cross=Equal with sprout(Cross) presents shelter!Was cross a shelter?Is he now Don?
Equal with/as sprout=cross,two equal sticks connected!
Egyptian infinity was Moebius:
http://mail.colonial.net/~hkaiter/infinity_moebius.htm
I can not resist here:
MoEBiUS=infinity=Motherly(Goddess) answer executes,word-of-mouth presence!Is this not infinity,spoken with words?



Edited by medenaywe - 10-Feb-2012 at 09:07
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 18:09
Originally posted by Don Quixote


Originally posted by medenaywe


Let us search some other elements that Christianity had borrowed from former Mother's religious cult Don!Let me post her Ankh,symbol of Life.Therefore we put this on our tombs as good luck in Dead one's afterlife?
This looks so much like a cross. It is loaded with Mother-Goddess' symbols - snakes, bird-wings/since the bird was a Mother-Goddess symbol since the paleolithic, and passed into Christianity as the Holy Ghost/; and the pharaoh looks like he is  basking in those symbols, being under their protection.  I'll follow with some research on it tomorrow, I have to grab some rack, it's well passed midnight here. Good night, worldSleepy.


The Ankh is an important symbol in Egypt, but this picture is a piece of 21st century jewelry, with a modern artist's decoration(the uraeus of Kingship and an image of Akhenaten). Don't take it as being a true image of what an ankh would have been decorated with.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 19:33
The Greek cross that is older than Christianity was composed of 2 equal in size sticks.
1600 BC, Knossos "...1600 BC marble sacral cross from the Temple Repositories of Knossos...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross
File:CROSS Sacral Stavros from the Temple Repositories of Knossos 1600 BCE Heraclion Museum Greece.JPG
And yes, Jesus as a shelter is a very used imagery in Christianity, a-shelter-for-one's-soul. "Sprout" is even more telling, since the eternal life for humanity  is supposed to have sprouted from Jesus's death. And the Tree is Life is always growing, it sprouts leaves, etc, so it's one ever-sprouted cross.

"Xristos" /χριστος/ in Greek meant as a verb "to rub", from where came Christ=Xristos="the annointed one".
"Xronos"  /Χρονος/ is Kronos, "time"
 "Xrestos" /χρηστος/ is good, favorable
"xriseos"/χρηστος/ is golden, beautiful, blessed
"Xristos" / χρυστος/ α vessel of gold
"xristos" xris-armatoc/ /χρυσ-αρματοσ/ - with a car of gold - an epithet for the Moon
"xrisos" /χρυσοσ/ - gold

In other words, the root of those words. "xri/e" is involved in many words that have a general positive meaning, all connected with dieties, gold /the divine metal/, blessings, etc, the Greek dictionary has like 3 pages of derivatives, all in the same general meaning, I gave only core examples. There have to be something special they all sprang from, something divine and above-man's-reach and nevertheless desired by all humans.

Also, there is this Buddhist cross with sprouts coming out of it. The cross was a divine symbol in Babylonia
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3I0gXJZ6XmU/SwWexw2yL-I/AAAAAAAAABg/GLe6jT58Gt8/s1600/Babylonian+SUN-god+Shamash.bmp
And together with the Ankh - even though I so far I'm not convinced that the cross part of the ankh was the male beginning, because a penis doesn't have  shoulders like  the cross does; Tree of Life is a better bet, IMHO.
THE CROSS AN ANCIENT PHALLIC RELIGIOUS SYMBOL

"...Image: Stela of Nabonidus. Neo-Babylonian dynasty, 555-539 BC. Possibly from Babylon, southern Iraq...."http://www.britishmuseum.org/learning/schools_and_teachers/resources/all_resources-1/resource_babylon.aspx

In the last one there is a cross between the Moon and the Sun, and what is a better place for  tree of Life to be between? If one ignores the sun, and looks at only the moon and the cross, it looks just like this ankh here

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mX3YHW8gOmw/TsEyb5_IJhI/AAAAAAAAAfM/0k8Jel8W1ys/s1600/ankh1.jpg



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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2012 at 20:11
Originally posted by Sidney

Dead one's afterlife?
The Ankh is an important symbol in Egypt, but this picture is a piece of 21st century jewelry, with a modern artist's decoration(the uraeus of Kingship and an image of Akhenaten). Don't take it as being a true image of what an ankh would have been decorated with.


How about this one, it's supposed to be authentic - and it's made out of lapis lazuli just like the staff of Inanna that was taken from her when she passed the first door to the underworld
http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/ankh9.jpg
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ankh.htm
This one is supposed to have the Pharaoh cartush on it

Covering all the bases with an ankh, djed and was-sceptre as an amulet

Also, to support my not-buying the sexual meaning of it
"...In fact, guides in Egypt today like to tell tourists that the circle at the top represents the female sexual organ, while the stump at the bottom the male organ and the crossed line, the children of the union. However, while this interpretation may have a long tradition, there is no scholarly research that would suggest such an exact meaning...." Ibid.

I had seen a fair deal of pictures sexual symbolic male-female representations, like in India, and they are very precise, no shoulders on them of any kind. Besides, to represent children of the union as a line going across the penis is too long of a stretch for me.

Here a Egyptian image from the Valley of the Kings, that has been broken to symbols and I can see a line of ankhs near the the bottom  of it, plus one in the hands of Hathor and Horus - the mother of Horus and manifestation one of the aspects of the Egyptian Mother-Goddess. So, the ankh was a Mother Goddess symbol, not a sexual union one per se, since the Mother-Goddess don't need a husband to conceive.

Hathor was considered at the same time mother and daughter and a wife of Ra; and later Isis was identified with her, so Horus was son of this Hathor/Isis, but in the same time he was the Sky, containing Sun and the Moon; so he is as complex as Hathor is. His head is a bird's one, and since the bird is a symbol of the Mother-Goddess since the Paleolithic., it's possible that he is a symbol of the Mother-Goddess, Hathor/Isis, since he was her son and her husband too, just like Hathor was mother-,daughter and wife of Ra. His cult was very old, dating from the Predynastic time, his is as old as Isis' cult.

Hathor's complexity came from her being Mother-Goddess who was self-sufficient, and not needing a husband to conceive, and in fact while Isis has a husband, Hathor doesn't /being in the same time mother and daughter and wife of Ra meant that she was in fact the feminine principle, talking all possible roles a woman may have in a male's life, not a real wife, even the Ancient Egyptians weren't so incestuous/, exactly because she was the Mother-Goddess-who-is-enough-by-herself.

http://buffaloah.com/a/archsty/egypt/illus/sign.html






Edited by Don Quixote - 08-Feb-2012 at 20:22
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 01:50
HRiSTo=Arrow-like connection presents shelter!Don,they knew that this was arrow once!Look at my name translation above!ANKH was predecessor of cross!Frozen arrow of life!Smile
HRiSToS=Arrow-like connection  presents protected(shielded)presence!
   Purpose of both was almost the same:protection of life!


Edited by medenaywe - 09-Feb-2012 at 02:18
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 02:27
Frozen Arrow of Life - I like that, then the shoulders on the ankh make sense as the fletching on it.
Btw, "arrow" in Bulgarian is "strela", and I can probably derive "strela" from "Hristo" in less than 5 linguistic steps, on the lingustic thread. Anyway, I was trying to find the root "hri/e" in Proto-Indo-European vocabs but had no luck, it's possible that the words came from other linguistic traditions, not from the Proto-Indo-European; which may mean that it may have came from an Egyptian/Asia Minor root.

As for ankh as a predecessor of the cross I absolutely agree, the cross became imbued with all the meanings of the ankh, because those meanings were developed long before Christianity came about. Besides, the Christianity as philosophy and as religion became developed in Egypt, the Early Church Fathers /a.k.a. Greko-Egyptian School of Alexandria/who built Christianity  pouring in it Greek philosophy, were all living in Egypt, and were naturally embracing Egyptian angles of philosophical thinking and symbolism because it was all around them, even if they didn't realize that. Even when mobs of Christians were destroying Egyptian temples and religious art they couldn't help themselves but to repeat many of what they were so anxious to destroy in their own symbolic art.

P.S.You come up with some very good poetic images, I'm so tempted to steal them ...but don't worry, I won't do that, I'm a bastard, but not such a big one.


Edited by Don Quixote - 09-Feb-2012 at 02:32
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 02:53
Proto-Holly-Shi....=virtual history matrix,just take out from there!That's our virtual matrix console Don,
"History" that have divided us for more than 2000 years,but language is our Homeland Don,they can not steel it!Smile


Edited by medenaywe - 09-Feb-2012 at 02:55
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 03:20
That's very true, we live in our language, we are literally immersed in it, and language is like an archeological dig - thousands of thin layers one over another, layered down along the centuries, and every important historical or cultural event left a sign of itself there, we can try to find those signs and restore a picture of what was what, and happened when and why. And as an emigrant I can appreciate your expression of language being homeland...on many levelsSmile.

Where did the "hri/e" root in "Hristos" came anyway, you have any idea? It seem to be a very important root in Greek, there are pages of words with it in the Ancient Greek dictionary I'm using. It's not much used in Slavic languages, AFAIK, the words in Bulgarian and Russian I can think with it are very few. mostly connected with Christianity, so they came late in those languages.
I have to go to bed, good night, worldSleepy.


Edited by Don Quixote - 09-Feb-2012 at 03:24
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 09:29
To Sidney
Here is Egyptian Bow from ANKH

Here is ancient Egyptian arrow:

Egyptian God of Time,Thoth:





Edited by medenaywe - 09-Feb-2012 at 09:43
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 10:27
Bow is twisted in ear of needle so arrow does not hit ankh's carrier!Big smileString&arrow stay alone but frozen.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 12:49
I stand on my positions here you will not receive draw on chess tableSmile!Check Tut's coffin about this Upper.
About Ankh&Hristos&KRSTo,translations of words are with 100% accuracy,syllables&weight of those inside also!
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 14:35
If there has not been Mother's religion so popular,Christianity could have been devastated!Till this days St.Mary ,his real mother in early church on which cult he has raised helps the Jesus,his first connection on Earth's surface.Am I hurting anyone?Insulting?Truth relieves Alani!All religions&churches have been built on elder one,that's the law.


Edited by medenaywe - 10-Feb-2012 at 09:14
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 15:05
Let us talk about meaning of sacrifice in Ancient Egypt and after in New Christian religion.
http://christianthinktank.com/cross2.html
Egyptian concept of live was that they were all victims that had lived their live with purpose so they
sacrificed to Gods,Gods could be self sacrificed  for them.Christianity transformed this into self sacrificing concept with resurrection as reward:Your sacrificing now will be rewarded after!Animals survive!What about humans?Smile
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2012 at 22:39
The fist on the hand of Ramehotep is not a sign for sexual union, as the thumb is sticking out, and I posted description that the thumb is supposed to be in the hand when the "clenched fist" a sexual symbol is made. Further, full breasts don't necessarily mean pregnancy.

For the mask and the face of Tut - he was reconstructed, an on the pictures I posted it's clearly seen that he looked nothing like his mother  - he had a receding chin, and a cleft palate, while Nefertiti didn't have such; besides she wasn't his biological mother. So, the face on Tut's coffin is not the face of the restored Tut, this can clearly be seen.

On the symbols - when a person cancels his father's religion and the symbols that went with it, it;s not very likely that he would want to be buried with the very symbols he canceled; especially if this person believed in afterlife, he wouldn't want to be stuck for eternity with the symbols he canceled.

The Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene are not mixed up, rather they both are aspects for the mother -goddess - the virgin and the whore; in teh same way in which the Egyptian Mother Goddess was split on Isis /life/ and Sekhmet /destruction/. For the Christian morality whoring was the worst thing a woman could do, the complete opposite of the purity of the virgin; and because the Mother-Goddess needed her other part, Mary Magdalene was vilified as to take the opposite of the virgin. Both the virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene make one Mother-Goddess.

The split of the female personality to "pure" and "filthy" is a very deep rift that occurred with the advent of Christianity, before this is didn't exist. Female sexuality wasn't seen as something bad or destructive in the pagan religions, in fact, it was the opposite, since sexuality was seen as sacred, as the act of creation of life is. Christianity inherited from Judaism it's sexophobia, his rantings against the "whoring" cults and the sacred prostitution, the latter being completely misunderstood under the strict Jewish mores and seen as something filthy instead as the worshiping with one's body, as it really was - putting women in the sacred space, that's why every woman had to do it once in her life, as a religious homily. Christianity inherited this sexophobia and turned sexual abstinence in a cult, making the mother of Jesus virgin; so it needed it's opposite to complete the image of the Mother Goddess.

Most unfortunately, this archetypal thinking sank in the modern  thinking, and now one cannot convince many Christians that the real Mary of Magdala wasn't a prostitute, and there is a reason for that - people need to complete the archetype in there heads /because we think with archetypes, even when we don't know that/, so they fight against any notion that Mary wasn't a prostitute, but a disciple and maybe even an apostle.

 Further, this moral rift imposed on our moral values a double standard for the both sexes, and the separation of women into "motherly, pure" and "dirty, whorish" is very much alive in most countries today - if a woman is a tad more passionate, she is ultimately branded "dirty", and as such an opposite of what is pure and deserves love. In fact, this vilifying of sexuality is the reason for it's profanization, and creating a lingustic jargon/slang to cover the part of sexuality that is considered "dirty", this slang seeps into the part that is not supposed to be "filthy" also and as a result the holistic and healthy sexual experience is broken to pieces - this is one of the biggest psychological tradegies of the fragmented psyche of the modern humans.

 This modern double standard is there is such resistance to the accepting of  Mary of Magdala for her own self, because if she is not the whore, then the image of the Mother-Goddess is not completed, so she has to be "dirty" for the mother of Christ to be a virgin. I have been fighting this for like 3 weeks on another forum so I see this thinking all over the place. Until this moral rift is eliminated, and sexuality regains its place as an elated human function, and the mother of Jesus is allowed to have been a normal human, not 'pure virgin', she will never be a holistic Mother-Goddess, and Christianity will need a vilified female image to fulfill the picture of the whole Mother-Goddess. But this is off OP.


Edited by Don Quixote - 09-Feb-2012 at 22:53
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