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Was the cult of Great Mother exchanged with Jesus?

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was the cult of Great Mother exchanged with Jesus?
    Posted: 03-Feb-2012 at 04:05
Prediction was predicted on ball or just early in the morning on Sun reflection in nearest lake&pool,Don?I do not believe there was Crystal ball in sorcerers hands indeed.Big smile
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2012 at 15:16
Isis:From first her,readiness(speech*) presents!(Which Goddess name is not spoken here!)(Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.)Is this means Isis was not supreme Goddess in Egyptian's heavens?Even Her name does not mentions the Goddess name.In my text Isis is NaANaNeTa,OSiRiS NaANaNeCa...Both words are Danayan's words which means that Alexander's people in Egypt used same language as Egyptians,even if names of the Gods&Goddess in Macedon were not the same.But main goddess was.She is most used syllable in text,She is plural,She pluralizes all on earth's surface.Big smile
* depends on phonetics,si or zi.

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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 01:44
Originally posted by medenaywe

Prediction was predicted on ball or just early in the morning on Sun reflection in nearest lake&pool,Don?I do not believe there was Crystal ball in sorcerers hands indeed.Big smile

The lake would make sense - or a sacred ball full with water. many of the Thracian bowls are covered with scared images from inside the bowl - why was that done, any other liquid but water would render the image invisible. That some of then could be used for predicting, filled with water, and  possibly something that makes images makes sense to me. Here some sacred gold bowls with pictures in them /gold was sacred in Thracia, only for kings and priestly use/:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KugpuHRwBo0/TQISxzAL5MI/AAAAAAAAAMs/6Nqi4GpvFdg/s640/thracian_treasure_5thcBC_plovdiv.jpg

A shallow bowl like the one with the 2 handles seems to me to be handy one to fill it with water from some sacred lake of stream hold it by the handles and look in it to see what figures the water makes over the pictures on the bottom. Later along the timeline this image of bowl filled with water may have gone in the collective memory as a "Crystal ball" -  which is quite close to a bowl with water, really.

In Bulgaria is very common after one drinks coffee /which every Bulgarian does like 5-6 times a day/ the cup to be upturned, and then one looks at the images the coffee sediment made, and tries to make out the figures, most women do that with gusto. It's possible this custom to be a remnant of older traditions of predicting, that were once sacred.

I have no info about how the oracle of Dionysus in Thracia was predicting, give me couple of days and I'll see what I can dig up from the net about thatSmile.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 02:06
Don,Sorcerers on Balkan area still use it for spells and courses.It is enough a metal plate to have,filled with
water.What does priest uses during his prays at our homes?He needs a plate with water,basil  and candle!SmileThan we keep the water for bath and drink!


Edited by medenaywe - 07-Feb-2012 at 06:55
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 02:43
Originally posted by medenaywe

Isis:From first her,readiness(speech*) presents!(Which Goddess name is not spoken here!)(Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.)Is this means Isis was not supreme Goddess in Egyptian's heavens?Even Her name does not mentions the Goddess name.In my text Isis is NaANaNeTa,OSiRiS NaANaNeCa...Both words are Danayan's words which means that Alexander's people in Egypt used same language as Egyptians,even if names of the Gods&Goddess in Macedon were not the same.But main goddess was.She is most used syllable in text,She is plural,She pluralizes all on earth's surface.Big smile
* depends on phonetics,si or zi.

Isis became one of the main goddesses in Hellenistic time, but she existed from the Pre-Dynastic time, prior to 3100 BC.
 So, her cult is very old, it came about with those of Osiris, her brother and husband. After Osiris was killed and Set and cut to pieces Isis found him piece by piece and brought him to life - she gave him life. Isis was born from Geb /Earth, male/ and Nut /Sky, female/, hence from the primary elements, like Hera, Athena, and Demeter were born by Gaia /Earth/ and Uranus /Sky/. Now, Hera, Athena and Demeter are an image of the Mother Goddess split in her 3 aspects /Mother, Wisdom, Fruition/Death/, the Greeks didn't keep the Mother Goddess in one holistic image, like the Thracians did with Cotys, they split her in aspects.
The Egyptians did the same - the split the Mother-Goddess in Isis and Sekhmet. Isis was late identified with Hathor, and hence with the mother of Horus.

So, it's not un-typical thing the Mother-Goddess to be not-the-superior divinity in one culture's pantheon - in Vedic India the Mother Goddess was also split in Kali and Parvati, the latter wife of Shiva, and as such not the superior divinity; but her cult goes back to the Indus Valley civilization. My guess is that all Mother-Goddesses were worshiped as fertility goddesses in the Paleolithic, and were "demoted" when the human societies became more complicated, richer and patriarchal; I suspect before this point they were gender-equal.

Most of the modern tribes of Aborigines who retained way of life closer to the Paleolithic/Neolithic have gender equality, and some of them are matriarchal. So, even though I don't root for some universal matriarchal organization during the Paleolithic, I think there was gender equality, and cult to fertility Goddesses - Great Mothers. Later they became demoted, were given parents and spouses, were "tamed" in a way, but they retained powerful positing in the pantheons of the respective cultures they were worshiped in.

I suspect that Osiris and Isis are Dumuzi and Inanna; Dumuzi being Adonis, who was enjoying a great respect in Anatolia, from where he got In Greece as Dionysus. Dionysus was the most respected god in Macedon, and drinking was they way to gain communion with him, that;s why Macedonians drank like crazy undiluted wine and were despised by other Greeks for that; because they didn't understand that to dilute the wine, which was equivalent of the life-blood of the cosmos, the world, and everything alive, to dilute it was to commit  disrespect toward the magic and divinity of life.

Alexander of Macedon was drinking/commuting with Dionysus all the time, and the more problems he had, the more he drank so to gain a insight how to deal with them. Btw, this also sunk in the collective unconscious, and the Bulgarians, Macedonians and Northern Greeks are known with their heavy drinking; and Dionysus is a part of the Christian tradition as St. Triphon the Pruner /guardian-of-wines/, on whose day everyone in Bulgaria gets blind drunkDead. Dionysus though didn't get a wife, and I suspect Inanna turned in Cotys, the female Dionysus. Some Greek city-states, like Athens and Corinth, took her from the Thracians and had her festivals.

So, the worship of Osiris and Isis, and Dionysus and Cotys and Inanna and Dumuz follow the same tradition, and that they represent the same ideas is not strange, becaue peopel tend to think in relatively the same terms, all cultures I know of have a Mother-Goddess in some form. Supposedly the original name of Isis was Aset, which I can to some point connect with NaAnaNeta. I've heard of an ancient Macedonian Goddess named Modea, a fertility goddess, but I haven't research her. Nevertheless she seems to have been the Macedonian Mother Goddess, and I heard that she was the supreme divinity in the Macedonian pantheon, and a local one, because AFAIK the Macedonians since 4th century BC were worshiping Greek divinities; s since that time they accepted, at least officially, the split split mother-Goddess' image of the Greek pantheon. Alexander sacrificed mostly to Athena, as far as I know.

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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 02:53
Originally posted by medenaywe

Don,Sorcerers on Balkan area still use it for spells and courses.It is enough a metal plate to have,filled with
water.What does priest use during his prays at our homes?He needs a plate with water,basil  and candle!Smile
Than we keep the water for bath and drink!

That's right, the Orthodox priests are frequestly called to sprinkle water on new homes, when one buys an icon it's sprinkled on, when one goes to a liturgy he/she is sprinkled on, etc, from a sacred silver bowl with small bouquet of basil or flowers. The bouquet represents the Tree of Life; and the idea is to "baptize" whoever and whatever so it' put in the sacred space. Some people rellay take such "svetena voda" /holy water/ for drink, even though I don't remember to have heard anyone to have used it for bathing. As for modern sorcerers...the so called "Gypsy sorcerers" are quite popular in Bulgaria, but I have no idea what they used, I've heard about beans...but I have a book on Gypsy sorcery, i can look in to see about any divination with water.

How come you know so much about the Balkans, medenaywe, if it's not a secret? How many languages do you use anyway, you throw here random words from like a half of dozen languages, several Slavic between them...not that I'm complaining, of course, just curiousSmile.

Btw, I made the copy of the picture of the stone, but it's kinda smudged, I don't know how usable it'll be; I'll try tomorrow to see if I can make out letters with my magnifying glass,....or with my microscope, if the first doesn't give me the desired size.


Edited by Don Quixote - 04-Feb-2012 at 02:59
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 03:01
Modea or better NaMoDeA=Offer to *Womb Deity victim!Egyptians call Isis NaANaNeTa,Macedon's Deity equivalent was L'ChA=From Spark Flame,Osiris equivalent was Dze=From foot answer.Isis was some kind of Goddess of Fire&Flame(?),Osiris equals with further known remake"Li" and Sun God/Snake God was  called "Dze" further remake "Zeus"!But I can translate NaANaNeTa&NaANaNeCa also using same rules&syllables here Don!They are ligatures,signs one on top of other,so they will be posted in Origins of language also.
*This is Great Mother Goddess=womb.Sounds have reason.Everything means something here.


Edited by medenaywe - 16-Feb-2012 at 03:49
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 03:04
Literary we are all NaMoDeA DeCaMo!Children of Great Mother,Goddess!LOL
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 08:24
It depends of dating.Maybe couple of millions years before they did it.Big smile
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 13:05
"Btw, I made the copy of the picture of the stone, but it's kinda smudged, I don't know how usable it'll be; I'll try tomorrow to see if I can make out letters with my magnifying glass,....or with my microscope, if the first doesn't give me the desired size."
 Yes it is.It's hard for work with geometrical signs almost impossible with Demotico,especially if geometry hides information.SmileI need 1:1 ratio photo of stone.That's cause of original text translation.All the rest is going on further.

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 13:47
You can not make original translation without errors but i translate it.I am looking 1:1 photo cause of errors
onlyLOL
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 14:20
Who did Demotic before?No one.Script that use "Greek" letters they did.Hieroglyphic inscriptions partly.They have compared Greek with Hieroglyphic that does not gives us original content in hieroglyphic text.Demotic is very precise.It speaks about origins of Pharaoh in first 10 lines,Titles and situation in Egypt cause of battle in Zama in 202B.C. and arrangements about funeral in last 10-12 lines.I believe can recover whole language using those 32 lines and languages ancestors today!Here is link about "Greek" letters text:
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/rosettatext.htm
   
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 16:07
Originally posted by medenaywe

"Btw, I made the copy of the picture of the stone, but it's kinda smudged, I don't know how usable it'll be; I'll try tomorrow to see if I can make out letters with my magnifying glass,....or with my microscope, if the first doesn't give me the desired size."
 Yes it is.It's hard for work with geometrical signs almost impossible with Demotico,especially if geometry hides information.SmileI need 1:1 ratio photo of stone.That's cause of original text translation.All the rest is going on further.

I have to admit, my idea is not working and I failedCryAngryDead. With magnifying all I see is the grains of the paper, but not the letters. How can I obtain a good picture of the Greek text of the stone, medenaywe?
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2012 at 16:13
Till now i have finished syllables,most of them,their meaning most of them,signs that represent them...Lot of grammar.Pictures are disaster as someone want to hide something in purpose.Will send you a message Don!For the rest!Cause here we talk about Great Mother!We really do it well. 
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2012 at 00:33
 I don't think we have to look at the sky for the"V"sign, I doubt the humans in the Paleolithic were able to think so logically as to connect dots into pictures, they were looking around them, and at themselves, and the human body is full with Vs. "V" is that a woman's thighs make to accept a man, and what her legs make to lock on her lover's back; "V" is what her legs make when she is giving birth; "V" is what her arms make to embrace a lover or a child, and what her fingers make when she slaps this child on the face to stop it from doing something ultimately stupid; "V" is what hands of lovers make when they interlock, and what a man's arm make when hi fights or beats' "V"s are in the corners of a mouth half open for a scream or a kiss, or a shout, or a curse, and in the corners of an eye - the organ we rely the most when observing the reality about us. I suspect that "V' became a sign of the Great Feminine/Great Mother because women simply have more "V"s on them.

That's why I think "V" is the most observed sign on the Danube script, and the zigzag is only a row of "V"s; I remember when on archeological dig in the town, Drama, in Bulgaria, excavating the layesr of Karanovo's Neolithic, 6300-5400 BC   , I was impressed with cheese-making bowls with holes that were adorned with rows of "V"s, supposedly this mark was the easiest one to make, that's why it was so much used. But I saw this decoration only on the cheese bowls, not on the regular ceramic pieces from other kitchen vessels, why" I suspect because the cheese is created from milk, brought along, given birth to, hence the sign of fertility was written around the bowl, like a symbolic way securing this act of creation, of birth being successful. Anyway, here some stamps from Karanovo that is full with "V"s
http://www.institutet-science.com/artefacts/kara11big.jpg
Thai site claims that those signs are pictographs identical with Egyptian hierogliphics  http://www.institutet-science.com/en/karanovoe.php  if this is so or not I have no idea, but the "V"s are there anyway.
This is the Bird Goddess Gumbitas talks about, with the "V" decorations:
The 'V'  is reported to be a shorthand version of the pubic triangle (represents shape of the fallopian tubes) which is found on many bird figurines.  It first arose in the Thessalian Sesklo culture in the 7th millennium B.C. on painted pottery, and is also found in early Starcevo and Karanovo cultures (Balkans) during the 6th millennium. ..."
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~gloria/Goddess.html

According to Gumbitas the Bird Goddess and the Snake were the most frequent representations in the
Upper Paleolithic in Europe http://books.google.com/books?id=zKFFOoPlyjIC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=v+sign+of+the+great+feminine&source=bl&ots=2aUE7of4xd&sig=GGTKPuARQwY-Cziwk0OB0n_63Wg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hxUuT53lJ-vViALU86zbCg&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=v%20sign%20of%20the%20great%20feminine&f=false

a
nd they were representations of the feminine principle /the Great Mother Goddess, in other words/.

The top of the pyramids is "V" shaped, as well the royal Thracian tombs that were build to resemble a cave; as is the top pf the obelisks, and at this point I on verge of agreeing with medenaywe that the pyramids may be seen as buried obelisks; and each side of the obelisk can be seen as a blade /I did bunch of thinking and this shape really resembles more the blade of a sword that a phallus, like the most widespread interpretation of the obelisk, AFAIK, is/.

The Masons are known to use "V" a lot, that's from where the Mormons got it  and use it in sacred rites and embroider it on their sacred garments, right where the heart is; which reminds me that the heart was considered to be the sat of the soul, and the soul has been seen by the Gnostics as feminine. In Bulgarian and Russian "soul", "love", as well as "death" are in feminine gender, which again can be seen as a cultural remnant of the Great Mother principle, Cotys being at the same time love, life and death, as every holistic Great Mother is. When Tertulian said "The soul is by nature Christian" in the Latin he used it's all in feminine gender "Anima naturaliter Christiana est". I connect this with the archetype set by the Great Mother Goddess who was love-that-creates-life, the soul that one has, and death that "marries' to everyone at the end  - everyone dies. There is this Bulgarian and Macedonian image of dying as marrying to Death, who is a woman; making love to death is to die; hence death is making love to the Mother Goddess, a very ancient archetype whose remnants can be followed even today in the modern cultures of the area.




Edited by Don Quixote - 05-Feb-2012 at 01:42
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2012 at 05:12
What does about incense use in Christian churches?Where did it origin?Which former religion did use it?
Read about use of incense in Ancient Egypt:
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/incenseperfume.html











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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2012 at 07:51
The Christian use of incense came from the Jewish use of incense, which came from the Egyptian use of incense, who got it from the land of Punt.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2012 at 08:01
What does it means Punt,Sidney?SmileLand or ancient terminology word?
P.S.
Follow the arrow of time,Sidney.First was Egypt.Nobody had mentioned Hebrew people in Egyptian scripts.Canaan word existed in Bible.What did mean really?(From freedom mother's,dreams/shelters!)If
phonetics do not change it.
         Egyptian scripts told us about people from place where they live also people of leader that was in charge there.Bible had separated people that spoke same languages in tribes. 


Edited by medenaywe - 07-Feb-2012 at 16:03
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2012 at 08:52
Here are all uses of incense in Bible:
http://www.bible-topics.com/Incense.html
Look here about temple of Magna Mater in Rome:
"This much sounds very Roman, but there were at least two unusual features about the worship of the Great Mother. First, her cult-image was not a statue but simply a black stone."(Was this connected with stone in Meka?_)
http://www.romereborn.virginia.edu/ge/TS-041-PA.html
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2012 at 14:58
Originally posted by Sidney

The Christian use of incense came from the Jewish use of incense, which came from the Egyptian use of incense, who got it from the land of Punt.

The use of incense is older than Egypt, the Sumerian used it, imported from Arabia. The Babylonians used it n divination  http://books.google.com/books?id=-PsUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=Babylonians+used+incense&cd=3&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Babylonians%20used%20incense&f=false
The Jews separated from the Akkadians in 4000 BC, hence they separated from culture that used incense for some time at this point.
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