Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Nineveh: City of Sin

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nineveh: City of Sin
    Posted: 08-Sep-2011 at 20:41

According to the bible God sent Jonah to the Assyrian city of Nineveh to save its wicked inhabitants from the same fate as the Sodomites. What had the people done that was so evil, and why did God decide to save rather than destroy them?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2011 at 21:18
Not clear...for the story, in this book, really isn't about the city but about the conflict between a servant and God giving him a task to accomplish, imo.
 
It was big.. according to tradition 120,000 plus and took three days to travel across.
 
Jonah, Verse 2 merely states the mission not the specific cause. "Wickedness" is nothing more then generic....in what way is speculative.
 
You must go to Nahum Chp 2 v8 thru Chp 3 to perhaps get a glimpse of the reason why.
 
And here again it's speculative but more specific....not the text the reason. Here it is claimed the city's inhabitants were robbers, thieves and liars. That the nation was a nation of war who enjoyed it and plundering and was corrupted through harlotry's and sorceries (read ritualistic prostitution and the Hebrews disdain of mediums and magic and probably the worshipping of other regional gods etc.).
 
Always a tough call to attempt circumspect rationalizations when it comes to OT scriptures.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Ollios View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 22-Feb-2011
Location: Diyar-ı Rum
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1130
  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2011 at 11:55
sumerians, babylonians and assyrians,  three biggest cultures in mesopotamia. Nineveh had to be great as babylon
LOL
note:the oldest writing samples which were found in Anatolia, are assyrian writing.

I am not sure, but I guess, it was about king Nimrod and Abraham.
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2011 at 19:50
Their warlike behavior makes sense as the Assyrian kings were feared for their ferocity. However, this in itself wasn't unusual: all ancient armies, including the Israelites, engaged in massacre, rape and plunder. Perhaps it was their tolerance of sorcery that angered God?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2011 at 20:20
Depends on the individual interpretation now as compared to then. But I, personally, would agree that if there was a superior cause in the minds of the Hebrews; it was probably indeed the latter not the former.
 
We have evidence indeed that allows for both. Consequently what parameters does one then use to indicate or justify or to identify and substantiate a superior versus inferior cause.
 
As I said elsewhere on this OT stuff and attempting to draw a contextual current nexus or even understand the intent of the time; it is a gawdamn mess.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 09:56
On that note, perhaps the reason God spared Nineveh was because, unlike Sodom, they didn't tolerate homosexuality, which seems to have been considered a worse sin than fornication and paganism

Edited by Nick1986 - 11-Sep-2011 at 14:06
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 10:52
Perhaps.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869
  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 19:13
Originally posted by Nick1986

On that note, perhaps the reason God spared Nineveh was because, unlike Sodom, they didn't tolerate homosexuality, which seems to have been considered a worse sin than fornication and paganism


Homosexuality was worse than fornication. Paganism depended on what kind of paganism. If the Pagan believed in his own pantheon of gods then I guess homosexuality was worse. If he believed in YHWH as well as other gods then I can't see anything worse than this for the israelites.
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2011 at 19:41
Originally posted by Baal Melqart


Originally posted by Nick1986

On that note, perhaps the reason God spared Nineveh was because, unlike Sodom, they didn't tolerate homosexuality, which seems to have been considered a worse sin than fornication and paganism
Homosexuality was worse than fornication. Paganism depended on what kind of paganism. If the Pagan believed in his own pantheon of gods then I guess homosexuality was worse. If he believed in YHWH as well as other gods then I can't see anything worse than this for the israelites.

Are there any records of pagans who worshipped both the Jews' god and their own deities?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2011 at 05:41
Interesting that requires me to pull out some stuff I had not thought about in a long while.
 
Possibly the Greeks with their Agnostos Theos..which St. Paul speaks of in Acts 17:22-17:31; KJV.
Now it doesn't state equivocally that was a correlation to YHWH...but Paul being always a good Jew I don't doubt he had already equated the God of Christ as the former.
 
And of course the Egyptians who may or may not have en mass believed in YHWH but they certainly recognized and feared Him as evidenced in Exodus. And it may be that the aforementioned is He that they speak of in official inscriptions. They used the name-title in the same so it is probable. See the following for more.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869
  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2011 at 18:58
Originally posted by Nick1986

Originally posted by Baal Melqart


Originally posted by Nick1986

On that note, perhaps the reason God spared Nineveh was because, unlike Sodom, they didn't tolerate homosexuality, which seems to have been considered a worse sin than fornication and paganism
Homosexuality was worse than fornication. Paganism depended on what kind of paganism. If the Pagan believed in his own pantheon of gods then I guess homosexuality was worse. If he believed in YHWH as well as other gods then I can't see anything worse than this for the israelites.

Are there any records of pagans who worshipped both the Jews' god and their own deities?


Baal-Alyon was the phoenician counterpart of El-Elyon (God the Highest) which is just one of the names given to YHWH in the OT alongside Adonai, Elohim, El-Shaddai...etc. Of course, we know the Phoenicians believed in a large pantheon of gods (Baal zebub, Baal tubal, Baal arz, Baal shemosh, Baal shamin...etc) as well as the supreme Baal which seems to have held the highest position.

Another occurance of this was with pre-Islamic Arabs. They believed in the high-god of Israel, YHWH, whom they reffered to by the Arabic translation of Elohim which is Allah. God in their belief was not to be directly worshipped but a another pantheon of minor gods were needed to be worshipped in the form of statues in order for the prayers to be answered by Allah. The other gods included Ya'uq, Nassr, Yaghuth, Allat, 'Uzza, Suwa'a and Manat.
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2011 at 19:01
The bible mentions the Arabs or "desert people," identified by their short hair (Jeremiah 9:25). They were circumcised but no longer kept the covenant it symbolised. Perhaps, after Ismail's death, they became corrupted and, over the centuries, lapsed into idolatry?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869
  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2011 at 09:34
Originally posted by Nick1986

The bible mentions the Arabs or "desert people," identified by their short hair (Jeremiah 9:25). They were circumcised but no longer kept the covenant it symbolised. Perhaps, after Ismail's death, they became corrupted and, over the centuries, lapsed into idolatry?


That is only the view backed by some scholars because other scholars refute the idea that Ishmael is in fact the father of all Arabs. The latter think that the name 'Ishmaelite', which I think we can agree is exclusively used to refer to people of Arabia, was only given to them by the Jews since they felt akin to them. Another theory is that they saw them as enemies and according to Genesis 16:12, Ishmael is described as 'a wild ass of a man'.

As to the proof that Ishmaelite refers to Arabs there are a few verses in the bible that support this claim:

'And they sat down to eat bread; and they lifted up their eyes and looked,
and, behold, a caravan of Ishmaelites came from Gilead, with their camels
bearing spicery and balm and ladanum, going to carry it down to Egypt'
Genesis 25:13


Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 19:09
Like the "noble savage" in the Americas? The Jews may have both feared and admired the Arabs' wildness as they continued to live the same nomadic life as Abraham centuries after the Jews settled down and built cities
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2012 at 19:27
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Sidney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 31-Jan-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 690
  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2012 at 19:15
According to the Book of Jonah, Ninevah was saved because it's king and people believed Jonah, and repented;

Jonah, Book 3:verse 4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, "Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?" 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

However, according to the Book of Genesis, the people of Sodom tried to abuse the angels that God had sent there, and although only Lot was made aware of the intended destruction of the city, he was not believed by members of his own family;

Gnesis Book 19:verse 5 They called to Lot, and said to him, "Where are the men who came in to you this night? Bring them out to us, that we may have sex with them." 6 Lot went out to them to the door, and shut the door after him. 7 He said, "Please, my brothers, don't act so wickedly. 8 See now, I have two virgin daughters. Please let me bring them out to you, and do you to them as is good in your eyes. Only don't do anything to these men, because they have come under the shadow of my roof." 9 They said, "Stand back!" They said, "This one fellow came in to live as a foreigner, and he appoints himself a judge. Now will we deal worse with you, than with them!" They pressed hard on the man, even Lot, and drew near to break the door. 10 But the men put forth their hand, and brought Lot into the house to them, and shut the door.
11 They struck the men who were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves to find the door. 12 The men said to Lot, "Do you have anybody else here? Sons-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whoever you have in the city, bring them out of the place: 13 for we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is grown great before Yahweh. Yahweh has sent us to destroy it." 14 Lot went out, and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters, and said, "Get up! Get out of this place, for Yahweh will destroy the city." But he seemed to his sons-in-law to be joking. 15 When the morning arose, then the angels hurried Lot, saying, "Arise, take your wife, and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the iniquity of the city."
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2012 at 20:03
What happened to Nineveh after Jonah persuaded them to repent? Did they convert to Judaism? And did they abandon their violent, decadent past?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2012 at 20:22
Nope they neither converted or took it to seriously as they lapsed again.... and he/GOD nailed their ass as described in

Nahum 2:6-11

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)


6The gates of the rivers shall be opened, and the palace shall be dissolved.


7And Huzzab shall be led away captive, she shall be brought up; and her maids shall lead her as with the voice of doves, beating upon their breasts.


8But Nineveh is of old like a pool of water; yet they shall flee away. "Stand, stand!" shall they cry, but none shall look back.


9Take ye the spoil of silver, take the spoil of gold; for there is no end of the store and glory of all the pleasant furnishings.


10She is empty and void and waste; and the heart melted, and the knees smite together; and much pain is in all loins, and the faces of them all gather blackness.


11Where is the dwelling of the lions and the feeding place of the young lions, where the lion, even the old lion, walked, and the lion's whelp, and none made them afraid?

  

That is the scriptural consensus anyway.
 
Sacked by the babylonians and Medes in 612 BC.
She was lost from memory during classical history and not much remains to this date less the mounds of Kouyunjik and Nabī Yūnus, Khorsabad, some gates and some sections of her city walls. Tho if memory serves correct Sennacherib's palace was found as was the Ashurbanipal library.
 
Her initial pennace has long served as a reminder of the forebearance of the Almighty and the repercussions when ya frick it up later.
 
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869
  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2012 at 13:20
Originally posted by Nick1986

Originally posted by Baal Melqart


Originally posted by Nick1986

On that note, perhaps the reason God spared Nineveh was because, unlike Sodom, they didn't tolerate homosexuality, which seems to have been considered a worse sin than fornication and paganism
Homosexuality was worse than fornication. Paganism depended on what kind of paganism. If the Pagan believed in his own pantheon of gods then I guess homosexuality was worse. If he believed in YHWH as well as other gods then I can't see anything worse than this for the israelites.

Are there any records of pagans who worshipped both the Jews' god and their own deities?


I just remembered that in the Torah there is extensive mention of Israelites who worshipped other gods besides YHWH.

1 Kings 18: 17: And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?
18: And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim.

Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2012 at 19:23
I thought Ahab abandoned God completely and worshipped Baal instead (doubtlessly due to his wicked heathen wife Jezebel)
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.