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Boer War

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boer War
    Posted: 18-Oct-2012 at 06:26
It's been ages since i've heard from Jaj and Bulldog. It would be great if they came back and started posting again
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2012 at 20:49
This Boer War forum might interest our South African friends Jaj and Bulldog
http://www.angloboerwar.com/
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2012 at 19:03
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2012 at 19:15
Here's something else i found that might interest you Jaj. My South African friends have a lot of respect for the Zulu and tell me they're not the type of people to mess with:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8642
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 18:34
Very interesting stuff, thanks for the revisit, Nick. Sadly I'm no authority on Zulu customs and culture to enlighten you. This is my thinking though. King Shaka's bloodthirsty tactics carved him a kingdom (every kingdom/empire carved from peaceable people is gruesome and bloodthirsty and is probably tied up with the theory of survival of the fittest. Power struggles of different dimensions have been going on since we dwelt in caves.) Where I think King Shaka's expansionism is different, is that he was, by design I think, not accident, an extremely fine strategist. If what I've read is correct, he decreed that only men were to be killed in his rampage, and the women were not to be left without the protection of men, but come under the patronage of his invading warriors. There may have been polygamy before Shaka's reign, but under this decree, where most men had umpteen wives, there was created a population explosion which may never have been exceeded before or since. The figures are staggering and the system set up a future majority that saw Zulus come to power.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2012 at 19:06
Something like this Jaj? A couple of months back we started a discussion on Shaka, but sadly i'm an amateur where African history is concernedDisapprove
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30162
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Mar-2012 at 22:26
Not the Zulu wars, but I'm interested in Zulu culture. This includes King Shaka's vision which incorporated an enormous population growth, ensuring their future dominance. And of course anything about the Boer War, except the technical aspects of weaponry.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Mar-2012 at 19:13
I understand Jaj. Want me to PM you when a Zulu or Boer War related topic comes up?
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2012 at 22:52
Sorry Nick, I'm not going to speculate about the future of South Africa. If anyone's chatting about the Boer War again, pleae let me know.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2012 at 19:31
My South African friends respected Mandela but are really pessimistic about the country's future. They say it's becoming corrupt and fear future discrimination against whites similar to what happened in Zimbabwe
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2012 at 01:18
Sorry I didn't make it clear that we were in queues to vote.
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2012 at 01:17
Then presumably the higher crime rate you referred to (when you mentioned that blacks banned the commandoes)refers to black independence in 1994. You should have been there. All of us whites had emptied the supermarkets stockpiling food for what we thought could be a bloodbath against us. Our family was the only one in Johannesburg not armed. Or so it seemed. Then on polling day we all stood in queues, all colours interminged legally for the first time - and it was like a blanket of peace had been thrown over South Africa. We stood and stood and there was no stamping or signs of victory, just acceptance. God bless Mandela I say. (I can't comment on anything else, it's beyond my knowedge.)
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2012 at 19:12
What i meant was the militia system in place after the Boer War. In rural areas the commandos continued as an auxiliary police force well into the 1990s
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2012 at 02:27
Referring back to a previous post of yours, I've now discovered that the Boers did bring in conscription for the Second Boer War, on 2nd October, 1899, and declared war on 11th October.
Your last post doesn't make much sense. The Boers couldn't afford a standing army, so the commandoes were their militia, and were not used again (unless there were still some border conflicts? Not sure.) There was no need, after the Boer War the Boers (Botha and Smuts particularly) were groomed for self-government and they were apparently very impressed that it was awarded so quickly. From then on such a tight rein was kept on the blacks that the thought of the blacks abolishing any part of the Boer regime is laughable. To try and keep some sort of power Sol Plaatje, a writer/observer at the Siege of Mafeking, helped form the SA Native National Congress or the SANNC in 1912. When they kept losing ground the African National Congress, the ANC, was formed in 1923 with a military wing. They were banned in 1960 and their guerilla campaign dates from the following year. Perhaps they followed the Boers' example of how effective a guerilla campaign worked against their enemy.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2012 at 19:05
Some more info on the Boer Commandos. After the ANC abolished them, the crime rate shot up

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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2012 at 23:12
I don't even know if Louis Botha was influenced by the Zulu culture which incorporated courteousness and humility, I'm just saying it's an interesting possibility. I'd think it highly unlikely that the Boers per se would adopt anything from black culture; just the opposite - they considered them unworthy beings, this being taught directly from their particular bible interpretation, with blacks 'the sons of Ham'. Louis Botha was different; he was moderate in his beliefs; he was married to an English speaking woman of Irish descent, who sounded as wise as her husband, that is from the little reading material that is available about her. He was well loved and popular and a brilliant general; a worthy first Prime Minister, but unfortunately unable to control the rising right wing.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 21:19
That's interesting Jaj. What other aspects of indigenous culture did the Boers adopt?
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2012 at 22:07
The commandoes were informal groups, supposedly from age 16, but many much younger joined, as they rode off in informal groups composed of family and neighbours. I suppose it must have seemed like a great adventure to youngsters, most of whom were already highly skilled shots. At the start of the war in Natal a number of women joined in, informally called the 'Amazons' and no doubt excellent shots. But after General Joubert died and General Botha took command, he forbad women at the front. He was a man among men. It's interesting; he used to interview people in his tent while lying on the ground. Since he spent some of his youth in Natal, I suspect this could have come from the Zulus, who were often misunderstood by whites for remaining lower than the person they considered of more importance, signifying humility.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2012 at 19:16
Did the boys volunteer or were they conscripted? From my understanding, the Boer commandos were a sort of citizens' army where everyone had to take part
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  Quote JAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2012 at 17:44
Regarding the Mausers, I'd think that with usual German precision, they would have been well tested prior to sending them to the Boers in South Africa. The Boers were expert marksmen and using the then high tech Mausers with a far greater range than the Lee Metfords, and above all with the smokeless cartridge, the poor Brits (literally) didn't know what hit them. There was a lot of talk about the 'invisible' enemy.
As for the youngsters fighting in the Boer army; it must have broken their mothers' hearts to let them go. Just look at the terrible strain and lack of sleep showing in the eyes of the young 15 year old above. One shudders to think what he has been through already. But there you are, whoever wins a war, the women are always the losers.
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