Are Armenian dead more important than Turkish dead?

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival Originally posted by akyncy Sorry but it's a false claim.I just posted the ottoman archives and it says nothing about it.If you are unsatisfied i will translate some parts for you.That didn't happen.The armenians were sent on exile because they attcked the turks. Exile.Of course many died on the way because of conditions bandit and so on.BUt the thing is it''s civil.Armenians vs Turks. If you send hundreds of thousands of people into exile, you have to have enough soldiers to transport and protect them. The Turks did nothing to stop the Kurdish bandits from killing Armenian women, children and elderly. If you do not have the means to appropriately deport a population (which is unjustified to begin with) then you cannot attempt it. You said they were sent into exile because they attacked the Turks. Tell me, how many women, children and elderly Armenians attacked the Turks? Because they were the bulk of the people sent into exile, most of the men were serving in the army.

No you don't have enough troops tp protect them!

And how can the ottoman army be attcked behind and betrayed by women and children if there aren't much men around?

Did the babies start killing people?

NO.Mostc of the armenians were not with the army

OK this is not going anywhere so i will try to conclude my point:

The Ottoman Empire was losing land in a vast speed for 140 years.Turks living in those countries were living in bad conditions,ill treated and sent to exile.Then they ened up in Anotolia,the wall that they were cornered into.The english poet Audrey Herbert puts it very nicely;

There falls perpetual snow upon a broken plain,

And though the twilight filled with flakes

the white earth joins the sky

grim as a famished wolf,

His lean neck in a chain

The Turk stands up to die

This was the only place were they were safe at home.But then a group supported by an alien nation rebels and tries to do what has been done to you for 140 years.The Armenians kicked a sick,cornered wolf.And it bit.But it didn't kill it though,it bit,it hurted but did not kill.The armenians  did a classick response yelling"doctor!lawyers!police!"The mark of his foot was lost but the painful bite remains.Making their anger and hatred grow stronger and stronger.The wound has never healed

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Originally posted by YAFES "Genocide" is non-sense to use for 1915 while even what the nazis did to jews is still called "holocaust" You do realize 'holocaust' is 'genocide' to the power of 4, don't you?

 

Come on Swedish, you're not here to do childish word gamings, are you

"Genocide" is a technical term which has sharp boundaries. If you target to finish the offspring of a race, ethnicity, or a nation; being in charge of the description is convenient and right.

But the affairs in 1915 were NOT EVEN HOLOCAUST.

IT WAS A CIVIL WAR.

THE OTTOMAN STATE WERE NOT GUILTY LIKE THE KINGDOM OF SWEDEN BY WHOM THE PEOPLE OF FINLAND WERE ASSIMILATED.

THE EXHOUSTED TURKISH ARMY SEPERATED TO ALMOST EVERYWHERE THE WAR WAS. RUSSIA USED THIS OPPORTUNITY AND FIRED THE TORPIDO. ARMENIAN GANGS-WITH RUSSIAN GUNS-TERRORIZED ANATOLIA. STILL EVERY YEAR COMMON GRAVES OF TURKS ARE FOUND AROUND VAN, ERZURUM, SIVAS, ERZINCAN, ADANA, MARAS, URFA...

NATURALLY ANTI-ARMENIC FEELINGS RISED AND IT TURNED INTO A CIVIL WAR. A SELF-STARTED PUBLIC MOVEMENT AGAINST ARMENIANS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, BECAUSE THERE WERE OTHER NATIONS WHO DID SEPERATE FROM THE EMOIRE LIKE SERBIANS AND GREEKS BEFORE ARMENIANS. IF A PUBLIC ISOLATION WOULD HAPPEN, IT WOULD CERTAINLY BE AGAINST SERBIANS AND GREEKS WHO STILL WERE LIVIN IN THE EMPIRE WITH HUGE MASSES.

THIS IS WHY THE ARMENIAN POPULATION WERE SENT TO SYRIA.

MURDERS possible each other

RAPES possible each other

LOOT possible each other

BUT GENOCIDE??? EVEN ARMENIANS DON'T GIVE A THING TO THAT, BUT YOU SEE IT SELLS!..

SO WHAT???

90 YEARS AGO

DEAD WAS DEAD LET THEM SLEEP AND WAIT FOR THE LAST JUDGEMENT. BECAUSE WE HAVE FOLDERS TO CARRY TO THE OTHER SIDE, TOO.

 

 

 

ArmenianSurvival, you should know by now that Turks say different things about the Genocide. Every day, they make up stuff. One day, the call it a civil war, the other day, they call it immigrations, then they start blaming the whole thing on Jews... Isn't it obvious that they are lying?

Originally posted by Artaxiad ArmenianSurvival, you should know by now that Turks say different things about the Genocide. Every day, they make up stuff. One day, the call it a civil war, the other day, they call it immigrations, then they start blaming the whole thing on Jews... Isn't it obvious that they are lying?

Yes.We have been plotting in archives and population counts a little over a century!

Originally posted by Artaxiad ArmenianSurvival, you should know by now that Turks say different things about the Genocide. Every day, they make up stuff. One day, the call it a civil war, the other day, they call it immigrations, then they start blaming the whole thing on Jews... Isn't it obvious that they are lying?

No, i think your just confused.  The "Turks" have been quite consistent in saying it was a civil war.
As for the "immigration", never heard that before, i think you mean deportation.  It was the Ottomans solution to ending the bloody civil war by transfering the troublesome population who had started the civil war to another part of its territory where they would pose a lesser threat.  I dont personally think it was the best thing to do but it did put an end to the civil war and end Armenians aspirations of ethnically cleansing Eastern Turkey of its non Armenian population.
Also never heard it being the Jews fault either.  I think your just making things up there.  thats a cheap trick.  Trying to make out like were anti-semites.  Lol.

Oh and btw we dont need to make things up, we have the truth on our side.  I believe its those who believe it was a genocide who like to make things up. 
In order to change the reality, which was that racist Armenian groups sought to create an ethnically pure Armenian state in Eastern Turkey, they instigated a civil war whereby they hoped to kill or force to flee in terror the majority of the population in Eastern Turkey who were Turks and Kurds.  Of course fortunately they failed to do this.
To change this picture they would have to potray themselves as innocent peace loving christians who were at the mercy of those evil barbarian bloodthirsty muslim Turks.
To do this you have to make things up.

Like make up the "Hitler Quote", so fake that even the Nuremburg Judges rejected it.

Like making up the Andonian Documents, so bad was the forgery that it was discovered that it was made in Paris and that the signatures on it where forged, the date of the documents had the wrong Governor at the time, the dates were all fucked up, someone didnt know how to convert the christian calender into a muslim calender , very poor grammar, obviously written by someone with a poor command of Ottoman Turkish, probably one of the worst case of a forged document in history .

making things up like claiming a greater number of Armenians died than the total population of Armenians before the civil war.  Can dead people die twice?  Did they die and come back alive again so that they could be killed again?  Blatant exaggeration.

Lets see what else did you have to make up.  Oh how could i forget, the "photograph" of human skulls.  Of course it would show just how evil those nasty Turks are.  Im not even going to waste my time here.  the so-called photograph is actually a painting.  if you want to see it its called "The Apotheosis of War" by a Russian painter called Vassili Vereshchagin.   Its in Moscow.  It was made on 1872.  He died in 1904.

It isnt the Turks who make things up.  Our arguments are solid.


Edited by AyKurt

As for the "immigration", never heard that before, i think you mean deportation.

I swear I have read articles saying that Armenians had �immigrated� out of Anatolia.

It was the Ottomans solution to ending the bloody civil war by transfering the troublesome population who had started the civil war to another part of its territory where they would pose a lesser threat.

A better solution would have been to kill Armenian revolution leaders. I still don�t understand how Armenians who weren�t from the East, or Armenian women, children, or elderly could have posed such a threat.

Also never heard it being the Jews fault either.  I think your just making things up there.  thats a cheap trick.  Trying to make out like were anti-semites.  Lol.

I�ve read plenty of articles claiming that the thing was the fault of �Doenmeh� Jews. But I don�t take these articles seriously. Oh and since you brought the subject of anti-Semitism, why is Mein Kampf a best-seller in Turkey?

In order to change the reality, which was that racist Armenian groups sought to create an ethnically pure Armenian state in Eastern Turkey, they instigated a civil war whereby they hoped to kill or force to flee in terror the majority of the population in Eastern Turkey who were Turks and Kurds.  Of course fortunately they failed to do this.

Your claims are exaggerated. Armenian groups did revolt against the Ottoman government, and they had their justifications. They were mistreated by their Moslem feudal overlords, or �beys� and �pashas� who would rule their lands they way they see fit� Christians had to pay extra taxes (jizya) etc.

making things up like claiming a greater number of Armenians died than the total population of Armenians before the civil war.  Can dead people die twice?  Did they die and come back alive again so that they could be killed again?  Blatant exaggeration.

How do you know that there were less than 1.5 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire? I have read an article explaining how McCarthy�s claims are false.

Oh how could i forget, the "photograph" of human skulls.  Of course it would show just how evil those nasty Turks are.  Im not even going to waste my time here.  the so-called photograph is actually a painting.  if you want to see it its called "The Apotheosis of War" by a Russian painter called Vassili Vereshchagin.   Its in Moscow.  It was made on 1872.  He died in 1904.

What are you talking about? I have never seen such a picture. You�re making it look like this is the only photo available to prove the Genocide. What about the pictures by Armin Wegner?

Take a look at the German archives: http://www.armenocide.net/

Did it convince you?

Originally posted by dark_one  Lies. The Turks simply saw Armenians as a potential fifth column and decided not to take any chances. Nice to see that you can deny something that I know for a fact happenned. Really proves your credibility.

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You should talk. Russia helped instigate most of the problems in the Caucasus.

Originally posted by Mixcoatl 1.) Although Dark One is Russian, he is not "Russia". Russia is a country, not a person.

you should have told this to "dark_one"

Edited by YAFES

Originally posted by AyKurt Originally posted by Mixcoatl Originally posted by Seko You should talk. Russia helped instigate most of the problems in the Caucasus. Two things: 1.) Although Dark One is Russian, he is not "Russia". Russia is a country, not a person. 2.) So what? Referring to his ethnicity is little more than an ad hominem. You as a moderator have a specific role to play in this forum.  Dont let your prejudices affect your conduct.

That has nothing to do with prejudices, I was just pointing to logical fallacies. Besides, usually I disagree with Dark One, so it would be strange if I would support him out of prejudice.