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TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25-Aug-2011 at 15:29
There might be another possibility maybe, what if the kingdom spanned from Yeman and into Africa.




Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 25-Aug-2011 at 15:33
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^ the south west of arabia is really green and very beautiful, i lived in abha, asir (saudi arabia) for 3 years which is on the border of yemen. lots of animal life there too
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Posts: 4734 		  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2011 at 01:44
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

There might be another possibility maybe, what if the kingdom spanned from Yeman and into Africa.



Yes, this would fit both the geographical requirements and the elephants.
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Posts: 4734 		  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2011 at 01:45
Originally posted by balochii

^ the south west of arabia is really green and very beautiful, i lived in abha, asir (saudi arabia) for 3 years which is on the border of yemen. lots of animal life there too

Have heard about if  elephants ever lived there?
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Posts: 12 		  Quote Felakuti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2011 at 20:11
Baboon Mummy Analysis reveals Land of Punt to be in Ethiopia and Eritrea.

(Independent, UK)

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/baboon-mummy-analysis-reveals-eritrea-and-ethiopia-as-location-of-land-of-punt-1954547.html

Edited by Felakuti - 18-Sep-2011 at 20:12
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2011 at 19:17
Originally posted by Felakuti


Baboon Mummy Analysis reveals Land of Punt to be in Ethiopia and Eritrea.
(Independent, UK)
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/baboon-mummy-analysis-reveals-eritrea-and-ethiopia-as-location-of-land-of-punt-1954547.html

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What do you think of Alani Dragon's suggestion Punt was both Ethiopia and Yemen? There's a theory they were once a single kingdom which may explain why the Shebans, early converts to Judaism, were such close allies of Israel
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2011 at 13:59
Originally posted by Nick1986

Originally posted by Felakuti


Baboon Mummy Analysis reveals Land of Punt to be in Ethiopia and Eritrea.
(Independent, UK)
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/baboon-mummy-analysis-reveals-eritrea-and-ethiopia-as-location-of-land-of-punt-1954547.html

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What do you think of Alani Dragon's suggestion Punt was both Ethiopia and Yemen? There's a theory they were once a single kingdom which may explain why the Shebans, early converts to Judaism, were such close allies of Israel
 
 
Well, considering it's too soon in the season to tell if it's Dallas or not, His guess is as good as any.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2011 at 19:37
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Posts: 30 		  Quote MKGlouisville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 10:04
Actually a 2010 DNA study of Baboon DNA from the Land of Punt have revealed that the area was located in Ethiopia and Eritrea. Somalia was Yemen were ruled out (the former being ruled out ages ago):

Baboon mummy analysis reveals Eritrea and Ethiopia as location of land of Punt

By Owen Jarus

Monday, 26 April 2010

Analysis of mummified baboons in the British Museum has revealed the location of the land of Punt as the area between Ethiopia and Eritrea. To the Egyptians, Punt was a place of fragrances, giraffes, electrum and other exotic goods, and was sometimes referred to as Ta-netjer, or 'God’s land'......

Only one of the two baboons was suitable for the research – the other had spent time in Thebes as an exotic pet, and so its isotopic data had been distorted. Working on the baboon discovered in the Valley of the Kings, the researchers compared the oxygen isotope values in the ancient baboons to those found in their modern day brethren. Although isotope values in baboons in Somalia, Yemen and Mozambique did not match, those in Eritrea and Eastern Ethiopia were closely matched.

“All of our specimens in Eritrea and a certain number of our specimens from Ethiopia – that are basically due west from Eritrea – those are good matches,” said Professor Dominy.

Link to full article


 
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 10:23
Here is something I have just read and might shed some more light on this question:

Ever since old times the people of southern Arabia (Yemen) and Ethiopia vied for calling the Queen of Sheba their own queen. The actual situation was that Hatshepsut was the queen of both of these people. During her reign borders were not clearly defined and the Punt reliefs proof that she had commercial contact via an Egyptian fleet with distant locations. Her fame had spread with these voyages making it understandable how both nations could accept her as their Egyptian suzerain.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/sheba.html
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 21:23
So the Egyptians once ruled Ethiopia? I'm surprised Solomon befriended the queen after Egypt's treatment of its Hebrew slaves
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Posts: 30 		  Quote MKGlouisville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 10:35
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Here is something I have just read and might shed some more light on this question:


While not trying to be an ass. I would say that my scientific finding (via genetic evidence) would have more weight in indicating Punt's location than a random website, wouldn't you say? That genetic evidence of the baboons from their mythical homeland pin points Ethiopia/Eritrea as the location of Punt. Genetic and cultural evidence from Y-DNA of the Egyptians themselves also supports the same general region as the homeland of the ancient Egyptians:




"It is doubtful whether Osiris can be regarded as equal to Tammuz or Adonis, or whether Hathor is related to the "Great Mother." There are closer relations with northeast African religions. The numerous animal cults (especially bovine cults and panther gods) and details of ritual dresses (animal tails, masks, grass aprons, etc) probably are of African origin. The kinship in particular shows some African elements, such as the king as the head ritualist (i.e., medicine man), the limitations and renewal of the reign (jubilees, regicide), and the position of the king's mother (a matriarchal element). Some of them can be found among the Ethiopians in Napata and Meroe, others among the Prenilotic tribes (Shilluk)."
(Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian Religion" , pg 506-508)


Yemen was ruled out ages ago due to the complete absence of the products that the ancient Egyptians described as coming from punt.


Edited by MKGlouisville - 30-Sep-2011 at 10:42
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 11:39
Originally posted by MKGlouisville

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Here is something I have just read and might shed some more light on this question:


While not trying to be an ass. I would say that my scientific finding (via genetic evidence) would have more weight in indicating Punt's location than a random website, wouldn't you say? That genetic evidence of the baboons from their mythical homeland pin points Ethiopia/Eritrea as the location of Punt. Genetic and cultural evidence from Y-DNA of the Egyptians themselves also supports the same general region as the homeland of the ancient Egyptians:




"It is doubtful whether Osiris can be regarded as equal to Tammuz or Adonis, or whether Hathor is related to the "Great Mother." There are closer relations with northeast African religions. The numerous animal cults (especially bovine cults and panther gods) and details of ritual dresses (animal tails, masks, grass aprons, etc) probably are of African origin. The kinship in particular shows some African elements, such as the king as the head ritualist (i.e., medicine man), the limitations and renewal of the reign (jubilees, regicide), and the position of the king's mother (a matriarchal element). Some of them can be found among the Ethiopians in Napata and Meroe, others among the Prenilotic tribes (Shilluk)."
(Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian Religion" , pg 506-508)


Yemen was ruled out ages ago due to the complete absence of the products that the ancient Egyptians described as coming from punt.

Why should we believe that you are an ass, MKGlouisville, especially as what you have shown doesn't actually rule out what I have being suggesting. My contention was that Punt could easily include Ethiopia/Eritrea and Yeman. Even if it was proven that the DNA you were talking about might be from Punt itself, it doesn't automatically draw out a boundary of the whole of Punt. Ruling out Yeman is like ruling out Japan these day for products manufactured and sold by the Japanese, even if the raw material might be from elsewhere. Another good example here is Scotch. It can be said it comes from Great Britain, even though its production is basically based in Scotland, the northern part of Great Britain. So products found to be from Ethiopia/Eritrea doesn't automatically rule out Yeman from being a part of the territory known as Punt.  
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Posts: 30 		  Quote MKGlouisville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 05:44
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Why should we believe that you are an ass, MKGlouisville, especially as what you have shown doesn't actually rule out what I have being suggesting. My contention was that Punt could easily include Ethiopia/Eritrea and Yeman.


Yemen has been ruled out for decades now! No serious archaeologist looks outside of the general East African region for Punts location and the genetics testing further confirms that the Horn is where it was located:

The Location of Punt

In this section, I've provided various scholars' opinions on where the ancient Kingdom of Punt would have been located, based on the scarce information provided by the ancient Egyptians.

Egyptologists have long since given up on locating Punt in Arabia Felix (Yemen), or equating it with the biblical land of Ophir and its "mines of King Solomon." In fact, there was also a land route that brought the products of Punt to Egypt; the "mountain of Punt" and its auriferous pools clearly lay on the borders of Kush, in the Nile Valley of Nubia. Scholars no longer feel a need to go as far as Zanzibar or Socortra or even to Somalia in search of Punt.The book of the pharaohs By Pascal Vernus, Jean Yoyotte, David Lorton, p. 150


So products found to be from Ethiopia/Eritrea doesn't automatically rule out Yeman from being a part of the territory known as Punt.  


The complete absence that Yemen has of just about all of the items and material collected characterized by the voyages to Punt  pretty much does seal Yemen's fate as the location:

Punt was home to various incense-bearing trees (Boswellia and commiphera, which thrive on low rainfall), dom-palms, and species of hard, black trees called heben in Egyptian, the origin of our own word "ebony." Visitors to punt enountered panthers and cheetahs, monkeys and baboons (the latter on dry hills), as well as giraffes and rhinoceroses, animals that dwelled in the plains. Gold also came from Punt, In the middle of summer, rain fell on the mountain of Punt only in the miraculous form of vertable deluges. These details gleaned from texts enable us to locate the famous shores of punt and their vast interland. The land called punt included a desert region and a Sahelian region between the 22nd and the 18th parallel N. The south of Punt might have included the present-day province of Kassala and the north of Eritrea. To the west and the northwest, an undefinable border separated it from Kush and the land of the Medjoi (roughly Etbaya).

The book of the pharaohs By Pascal Vernus, Jean Yoyotte, David Lorton, p. 150-1
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 06:29
I will point out just these two things, first the description of where Punt was meant to be in regards to Egypt:
At times, the ancient Egyptians called Punt Ta netjer, meaning "God's Land".[18] This referred to the fact that it was among the regions of the Sun God, that is, the regions located in the direction of the sunrise, to the East of Egypt.
The other being this map from wiki:





Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 01-Oct-2011 at 06:30
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 15:47
If it helps,I will offer you "liberated earth,shelters"=PuNTo!On picture is Arabic peninsula which name talks
about slaves,maybe nearby was land for refuges from slavery?!?
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Posts: 4734 		  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2011 at 17:06
Originally posted by MKGlouisville

Actually a 2010 DNA study of Baboon DNA from the Land of Punt have revealed that the area was located in Ethiopia and Eritrea. Somalia was Yemen were ruled out (the former being ruled out ages ago):
[QUOTE]Baboon mummy analysis reveals Eritrea and Ethiopia as location of land of Punt

I don't consider this a ultimate proof - since they weren't able to compare with a Yemeni baboon:
"...The team were unable to compare the mummies with baboons in Yemen. However, Professor Dominy reasoned that “We can tell, based on the isotopic maps of the region, that a baboon from Yemen would look an awful lot like a baboon from Somalia isotopically.” As Somalia is definitely not the place of origin for the baboon, this suggests that Yemen is not the place of origin either....Ibid.

And the ruling out in the case is a pure supposition, with no baboon to compare and rule out there is no ultimate proof. On the other hand there is a geographical clue that Punt was located north-east from Egypt as well as south-east - and Ethiopia alone doesn't cover that clue.
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Posts: 4734 		  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2011 at 17:13
Originally posted by MKGlouisville

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt#cite_note-Meeks-4

Yemen has been ruled out for decades now! No serious archaeologist looks outside of the general East African region for Punts location and the genetics testing further confirms that the Horn is where it was located:
[QUOTE]

No, it's not "completely ruled out":
"... Dimitri Meeks has written that “Texts locating Punt beyond doubt to the south are in the minority, but they are the only ones cited in the current consensus about the location of the country. Punt, we are told by the Egyptians, is situated – in relation to the Nile Valley – both to the north, in contact with the countries of the Near East of the Mediterranean area, and also to the east or south-east, while its furthest borders are far away to the south. Only the Arabian Peninsula satisfies all these indications.”[5]..."^ a b Dimitri Meeks - Chapter 4 - “Locating Punt” from the book “Mysterious Lands”, by David B. O'Connor and Stephen Quirke.

As for the genetic proof, can you post your sources on that? Thank you in advance.



Edited by Don Quixote - 26-Nov-2011 at 17:30
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2011 at 18:10
Originally posted by Don Quixote

Originally posted by MKGlouisville

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt#cite_note-Meeks-4

Yemen has been ruled out for decades now! No serious archaeologist looks outside of the general East African region for Punts location and the genetics testing further confirms that the Horn is where it was located:
[QUOTE]

No, it's not "completely ruled out":
"... Dimitri Meeks has written that “Texts locating Punt beyond doubt to the south are in the minority, but they are the only ones cited in the current consensus about the location of the country. Punt, we are told by the Egyptians, is situated – in relation to the Nile Valley – both to the north, in contact with the countries of the Near East of the Mediterranean area, and also to the east or south-east, while its furthest borders are far away to the south. Only the Arabian Peninsula satisfies all these indications.”[5]..."^ a b Dimitri Meeks - Chapter 4 - “Locating Punt” from the book “Mysterious Lands”, by David B. O'Connor and Stephen Quirke.

As for the genetic proof, can you post your sources on that? Thank you in advance.


As well as totally agreeing with what you're saying I would add that Punt wasn't a fixed area over its history.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2012 at 19:18
The ancient Egyptians trace their origins to the land of Punt. Being black Africans, it's more likely they came from Ethiopia than Arabia
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/we05.htm
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