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Topic ClosedIndo aryans of south asia a dying people?
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Posts: 10226 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indo aryans of south asia a dying people?
    Posted: 09-Jul-2017 at 13:51
I  might point out that this thread is several years old, the folks involved haven't been active for sometime.











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Posts: 1 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2017 at 12:36
Originally posted by balochii

so all those millions of pashtuns, kalash, and other dardic groups who look like that are Albinos? only a indian nationalist who is probably very darkskinned and is very insecure about his skin colour can be this stupid.



I laughed out loud and could not resist signing on to reply to you Col. What on earth is your business to connect to the Rig vedas or the vedic history or even Aryan heritage? I doubt you have any knowledge about anthropology. What I see is a undying attempt to glorify Paki heritage and find a connection with a glorious INDIAN past but all that was long lost when your forefathers embraced a nomadic desert cult. I see this pattern in every paki these days. Its like when you do not have anything to boast of that holds your country in good stead you start comparing skin colours and now even semi educated ex army blokes are talking about Human ancestry and attempting to link pakis with Aryan heritage?! Haha c'mon Col give me a break. What you see as fair Pakis are nothing but converted hindu rajputs, sikhs and even Brahmins like kashmir. The Kalash, dards are all originally hindus and hats off to the Kalash they are still fighting off islamic conversion. India is 1.3 billion and it has every skin tone and colour. I can show your negritos, Australoids, mongoloids, jewish, eurasian looks in every city of India. Thats the beauty of India where as people like you trying their best to connect to blonde Europeans somehow and prove Indians are low caste??! Well, you can try what you are best at but pls dont make a connection with Vedas and this is coming from brahmin of North India who would put you to shame if you start talking about skin tones! If I were to say India has 30% white skin stone that is still double your whole population! But the point is not that. Point is be proud of you and your abilities. Stop being racist and stop being obsessed with proving pakis are whiter and have blonde hair. It wont do you any good. Sartaj Aziz deapite his white skin tone  and an uncanny Skeletor face (Heman cartoon!) is going to be shamed the same way anyhow because its your deeds that matter and not your colour. I am sure with your idealogy you will not let your son ever marry a dark skinned women? Why would you, your progeny is going to be dark is it not?!  Grow up Col
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Posts: 3 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2014 at 10:31
you do realise that over time the skin will be affected by the heat which is there across the central India which makes indo-aryan race people not look like the same ones in Kashmir and other northern parts .  It is ridiculous to show some photos , it is a matter of dna and i am pretty sure there are millions of Indo-aryans still left in large parts of India . Eventually there will be more mixture with different races but with arranged marriages still relevant in most parts , this group is here for long .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2014 at 23:11
Originally posted by balochii

unfortunately their history is being wiped out, the Dardic people are the original indo aryans, who's ancestors probably even wrote the rig vedas, however today they are just confined to some mountains and villages in northern pakistan, they are slowly succumbing to the (indic) invasion from the south.

May you be kind as to provide scholarly proofs that attest to the portions which I highlighted in your post quoted above?



Edited by Veritās - 23-Feb-2014 at 00:59
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Posts: 251 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2013 at 02:55
Originally posted by TITAN_


Omilos meleton is a philosophical institution that promotes ancient Indian "Advaita Vedanta".  Advaita Vedanta is a school of Hindu philosophy and religious practice, giving "a unifying interpretation of the whole body of Upanishads".

It is not a serious source of scholarship, since all it does is to promote nationalistic Hindu supremacy nonsense. Yep, like those 6000 BC Rig Veda theories....Confused


All the more reason I didn;t read it or even considered reading it. These "Hindu" nationalists have a habit of quoting their psuo-scholars and pseudo-scientists to win arguments like they do with the "out of India" theory. They do it all the time and SuryaVajra is doing nothing new here .....
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Posts: 480 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2013 at 03:22
Originally posted by SuryaVajra

Pakishield. I am sorry if anything I said offended you

But I really wish you take my advice seriously . You have a lot to pore into.

There is a website called "OMILOS MELETON" by a Greek scholar called Kazanas.

Thats where I started. That might be the place for you . Its has a beautiful collection of papers on A-Z of the subject.

Omilos meleton is a philosophical institution that promotes ancient Indian "Advaita Vedanta".  Advaita Vedanta is a school of Hindu philosophy and religious practice, giving "a unifying interpretation of the whole body of Upanishads".

It is not a serious source of scholarship, since all it does is to promote nationalistic Hindu supremacy nonsense. Yep, like those 6000 BC Rig Veda theories....Confused
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Posts: 699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2013 at 00:51
so all those millions of pashtuns, kalash, and other dardic groups who look like that are Albinos? only a indian nationalist who is probably very darkskinned and is very insecure about his skin colour can be this stupid.
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Posts: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 13:53
Originally posted by balochii

Languages and genetics are two totally different things, for example a guy in Maharastra or central india might speak a indo aryan language yet genetically he will be much closer to a Tamil than to lets say a Kashmiri

Just because 70% of India speaks indo aryan languages, doesn't mean they are related to the original indo aryans



The first sentence is very mature. Language and race cannot be equated.

But Balochi, the part coming after the coma interprets the principles of Genetics and anthropology upside down. Firstly, genetics does not recognize "Tamils" and "Maharashtrians"

Wanna know why?

The frequencies of R2 seems to mirror the frequencies of R1a (i.e. both lineages are strong and weak in the same social and linguistic subgroups). This may indicate that both R1a and R2 moved into India at roughly the same time or co-habited, although more research is needed. R2 is very rare in Europe.
Sanghamitra Sengupta, L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majumder, and P. A. Underhill. - 2006.

Southern castes and tribals are very similar to each other in their Y-chromosomal haplogroup compositions.” As a result, “it was not possible to confirm any of the purported differentiations between the caste and tribal pools,” a conclusion that directly clashes with the Aryan invasion theory which purports that male European Aryans chased tribal adivasis and aboriginals down south.
Sanghamitra Sahoo,  T. Kivisild and V. K. Kashyap. -  2006.



You make a humungous assumption that "Tamils" are a distinct genetic pool. They are not . The vast majority of Indians have just 4 mtDNA lines.

Where does your argument fit in?


I regret having to bring in Genetics to History so prematurely. But no one listens when history is enunciated.
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Posts: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 11:56
Pakishield. I am sorry if anything I said offended you

But I really wish you take my advice seriously . You have a lot to pore into.

There is a website called "OMILOS MELETON" by a Greek scholar called Kazanas.

Thats where I started. That might be the place for you . Its has a beautiful collection of papers on A-Z of the subject.
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Posts: 10226 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 09:42
SuryaVajra, you were the one who brought up "Albinos", there was no mention of Albinism until your post.
 
Mutual respect is what we try to run on here. Surya, I'm giving you an informal warning to keep it within the CoC.
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Posts: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 01:43
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

The people in the pics are not indians nor are they albino. You clearly don't understand the whole meaning of indo-aryans


From what you have so far said, it is clear that it is you who is devoid of any knowledge of who the Vedic people were.

The solution?----stop looking for albinos and start reading original texts , the Vedas .See what the Vedic people say about themselvs.

 Here's a starter. There were four major tribes. Anu, Druhyu, Turvasa, Puru. The Purus composed the Vedas and are the ancestors of Indians and ,oh well, Pakistanis.

Here is the royal family tree of the Vedic Aryan tribe of Puru-Bharata (ancestors of Indians) reconstructed from the rig Veda. This is called the Lunar dynasty. 

The Druhyu may have have been ancestors of European Celts (Druids) and the Rig Veda does say they left "Via the northern route" after loosing the Dasarajna war .

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/4838/lunardynasty.jpg From "Rig Veda, a Historical analysis" by Srikant Talageri.
The predominant dynasty in the Rigveda is the dynasty of DevavAta, one of the descendants of the ancient king Bharata.

The kings in this dynasty, as we have already seen, are:

DevavAta
SRnjaya
VadhryaSva
DivodAsa
Pratardana
Pijavana
DevaSravas
SudAs
Sahadeva
Somaka

These kings are Bharatas, but they are also PUrus: according to the PurANas, the Bharatas are a branch of the PUrus; and this is confirmed in the Rigveda, where both DivodAsa (I.130.7) and SudAs (I.63.7) are called PUrus, and where the Bharata composer Parucchepa DaivodAsI repeatedly speaks as a PUru (I.129.5; 131.4).

Some other names of kings in the Rigveda who appear in the Puranic lists as PUru kings (some belonging to the Bharata dynasty of DevavAta, and some not) are:

AjamILha (IV.44.6).
Dhvasra/Dhvasanti and PuruSanti (I.112.23; IX.58.3).
          (SuSanti and PurujAti of the Puranic lists.)
Mudgala (X.102.2, 5, 6, 9).
RkSa (VIII.68.15, 16; 74.4, 13). 
Srutarvan (VIII.74.4, 13; X.49.5). 
Vidathin (IV.16.13; V.29.11). 
Santanu (X.98.1, 3, 7).
KuSika (III.26.1).

read this for more..

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch5.htm


Also Pakishield....DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL AUTHORS OF THE RIG VEDA?

Here is a sample information.

http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/img24.jpg

Please realize how much knowledge you are missing when you run after albinos.



Edited by SuryaVajra - 05-Jun-2013 at 11:53
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Posts: 251 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 17:37
The people in the pics are not indians nor are they albino. You clearly don't understand the whole meaning of indo-aryans
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I am sorry to say this. But this topic is disgusting .Its intention smells stale if indeed by "Indo Aryans" you refer to the fair skinned people(as though such a demograpic bloc can be genetically localized)

Its also hilarious to see the author pasting clear pictures of Indian albinism to show " dying aryans".

There is an albino living close to my house. He is not white, nor is he brown. He is just an albino whose parents are Indian.


Edited by SuryaVajra - 04-Jun-2013 at 00:22
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Posts: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2013 at 14:24
While this being agreed in modern day india. duringthe later vedic period there was migration from vedic land into main land india. many south indian brahmins and some other casts consider that their ancestors migrated from vedic land(east afghanistan, most of current pakistan and northindia) to spread vedic teaching. however now, most of them are heavily mixed. 
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Posts: 251 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2013 at 13:54
Originally posted by balochii

Just because the two countries were one before doesn't mean they are exactly the same people


They weren't the same 'country.' They were the same colony under the British empire which lasted less than a hundred years, so in that sense they were the 'same country' but before and after that the regions borders kept shifting aorund. Ukraine and Uzbekistan were the same country as the Soviet Union, nobody dares to think Ukrainians and Uzbeks are 'the same.'


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Posts: 699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2013 at 20:57
I saw one interesting pic comparing pakistani and Indian politicians, look at the difference, the one on the left is Indian and right is pakistani.  Pakistanis even eastern and southern ones are definatly more west asian/west eurasian than indians, pakistan is west of india to begin with, so it's common sense. Just because the two countries were one before doesn't mean they are exactly the same people






Edited by balochii - 17-Mar-2013 at 20:59
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Posts: 699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2013 at 20:43
Originally posted by TITAN_

As fas as I know, only in North West India you can find a significant percentage of people who have European characteristics like relatively white skin.


even in NW india majority of people dont have fairskin, only about 20% would probably have it. There are also no other european features in Indians

It is really once you hit Kashmir and northern Pakistan where you start seeing those features
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Posts: 699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2013 at 20:41
Originally posted by hi_im_blond

They are NOT White or even Indo-Aryan, blue eyes and blond hair is extremely rare even for Kalash or North Pakistan, majority have dark hair and eyes, this is a very complex subject, Indians actually have the highest European blood outside of countries considered culturally white (upper caste Hindus and Sikhs not Muslims because Islam was brought to the lower caste, some of these castes are said to be of pure European origin), the Pakistan region was all Buddhist, Hindu, or Sikh and fled to modern day India far before the partition (no records or borders), the ones with land fled after or during the partition because they were resisting, Pakistanis today are mainly followers of a rebel leader from central India and went to the Pakistan region for land and money, only people in that region today that did not move are the Kalash more financial reasons, there’s MANY tribes like these in Nepal and India with larger numbers than Kalash, but go unnoticed because of their large population of their countries. Follow the caste not the region, the Sikh massacre made Hindus and Sikhs in Kashmir and neighboring states to come a little south to Punjab or Jammu, they used to be a majority (little more south), north is successful and has a lot of immigrants and the partition switching, Im American, and almost every time Alexander the Great story is brought up, he has nothing to do with the Kalash and Alexander wasn’t even Greek, that's proof people have no Idea what their talking about, the Kalash are of Mongolian blood, they resemble ethnic Hispanic (who were Mongolian), but Hispanics are WAY lighter, the only people whose looks are being maintained are people practicing the caste system, if you go up to a Hindu they can automatically tell you what the person's caste is based on looks, and plus if you put all upper caste Hindus and Sikh together or take all the natives of one north Indian state that would be more than ALL of any south or central Asian country, so no Indo-Aryan are not disappearing

Dont be confused blonde hair has nothing to do with genes, in Asia it is mainly brought out by temperature and malnourishment, if you look at Asian decent America, NONE will have light hair, and that has nothing to do with Indo-Aryan genes

This is Anatomy 101, genes dont disappear and remain in the blood and passed on forever, unless their totally different people and think their something else, the history of Pakistan region applies to the natives not majority that live there, and the only natives are Kalash not the rest so you may think its disappearing, the Kalash (you could say kinda practice a caste system) and don't mix, that's why it seems like the Kalash are the only Indo-Aryan for Pakistanis, because the rest are once again of central India descent and mix because they don't believe in a caste system and mix

Also Caucasian and White are two different topics, ethnic Caucasians and Aryan were dark featured and said to be from the middle east, the words Caucasian and Aryan were adopted by Celtic blooded Whites

the Dravidian are the ones disappearing, did you know Indian subcontinent had a slave trade, majority of the Dravidian were put in the slave trade to  Middle East and West Indies, but they never looked like stereotypical Africans, that's why Pakistan and India is Caucasian today, because Caucasian boned people are mainly left, but the countries still has a mix of races (every country does though) 

I also dont understand why Mughul is brought up, he was Mongolian and he later accepted Turkish culture, ALL the clans of the Mughul empire were Mongols not Turks, one additional clan was added later on (once they got to Turkey) but that clan never step foot on Asia

Clearly, you have no idea or proof and claim of your opinions, i studied Anthropology for 8 years and traveled the globe.


total bs, why dont indians look anything like european than? even the so called high caste would at best look like average pakistanis. Pakistanis overall have higher west asian and west eurasian than indians, this is proven by genetics and among pakistanis it is the northern and pashtun people who have the most west asian and west eurasian genetics. I dont why indian nationalists always want muslims to be related to low caste, this is not true at all
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Posts: 251 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 12:59
^ I was just specifying your description of them.  
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Posts: 480 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 05:11
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by TITAN_

As fas as I know, only in North West India you can find a significant percentage of people who have European characteristics like relatively white skin.


Those white minorities look like Mediterranean peoples.

Of course, I never claimed they look like Scandinavians.
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