Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Light Eye Color & Indo-European Migrations
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Light Eye Color & Indo-European Migrations
    Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 13:07
I think skin color can be certainly to sunlight but eye color is said to be a genetic trait passed down from generations of ancestors, it seems to be clear that people who have Turkic, Arabic, African or East Asian origin can't have blue eyes, unless they have an European or Iranian origin too, about Indians, except some northern Indian peoples, I believe the majority of them adopted an Indo-European culture, so there was not really a mass migration to this region.
 
I have visited some different countries in the Middle East, this eye color was really an interesting thing for me, for example in UAE, it was not really difficult to find some fellow countrymen by considering this thing.
 
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 21:35

how do we know that Indo-Europeans had coloured eyes??? we can't really assume that, also i agree with the indian part, however i am still not sure why they have so much R1a1 dna, which is thought to be indo european dna
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 08:01
Because Genetical studies had proved that R & its subclades originated in India
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 13:48
^ not it hasn't, there is still a huge debate on it
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2010 at 11:41
Balocchii, you need proof,  Sources.  Without them it is only your opinion.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 02:48
The results ofa recent genetical study regarding the ancestry of Caste and tribe populations of India
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 02:55
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think skin color can be certainly to sunlight but eye color is said to be a genetic trait passed down from generations of ancestors, it seems to be clear that people who have Turkic, Arabic, African or East Asian origin can't have blue eyes, unless they have an European or Iranian origin too, about Indians, except some northern Indian peoples, I believe the majority of them adopted an Indo-European culture, so there was not really a mass migration to this region.
 
I have visited some different countries in the Middle East, this eye color was really an interesting thing for me, for example in UAE, it was not really difficult to find some fellow countrymen by considering this thing.

How can an established civilization which spanned over 2 million kilometres completely adopt a foreign culture including language without leaving even a trace of the original culture and language which it once used to follow..?And from the adopted language how can so much of different languages dialects(other devnagari languages other than sanskrit which is spoken in India) originate within such a short period of time say 1000 years..?And how can so much of literatures written in the newly adopted language(sanskrit) within a couple of centuries..?
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 04:36
2 million km?????
 
also what i believe is northern part of the subcontient, present day northern pakistan and areas like kashmir were part of the orginal aryan lands, but most of what you call india today wasn't, dont forget that sanskrit and early vedic culture developed in very extreme northern parts of the subcontinent, like peshawar pakistan where panini lived, this clearl yshows the connection with early indo europeans or aryans, the home of aryans probably was todays northern pakistan, northern afghanistan, northern iran, and southern central asia, not today's india as indians claim.
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 06:40
Kindly prove what you say.
Rigveda is the oldest sanskrit text available today.All Sanskrit texts including Rigveda is speaking about its origin on the banks of Saraswati.Not peshawar or Pushkalawati as it was earlier called.
We already had this conversation and you werent able to give any profs and finally you yourself denied saying sanskrit originated in peshawar.
You need to provide proofs for your claims in the above post regarding origin of sanskrit and home land of aryans.
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 12:49
^ Saraswati's location is not proven except to nationalistic hindus, most of rig veda talks about places in northern part of continent, places like swat in northern pakistan, rig veda was definatly written in northern pakistan or kashmir, rig veda mentions the drink (soma) all the time, which in only available in either centra asia, afghanistan and northern pakistan, its not there in india. (soma) is a mountain drink.
 
the (fairskinned) people of northern pakistan and kashmir are probably the decendants of indo europeans or aryans, even pashtuns possibely. most of india adopted the (languages) and culture of aryans, any thing is easily adoptable over a period of more then 3000 years


Edited by balochii - 06-Dec-2010 at 12:51
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 22:36
Originally posted by balochii

^ Saraswati's location is not proven except to nationalistic hindus, most of rig veda talks about places in northern part of continent, places like swat in northern pakistan, rig veda was definatly written in northern pakistan or kashmir, rig veda mentions the drink (soma) all the time, which in only available in either centra asia, afghanistan and northern pakistan, its not there in india. (soma) is a mountain drink.
 
the (fairskinned) people of northern pakistan and kashmir are probably the decendants of indo europeans or aryans, even pashtuns possibely. most of india adopted the (languages) and culture of aryans, any thing is easily adoptable over a period of more then 3000 years

Saraswati's location is proven and is attested by all scholars in Indo-European studies (including prof.Michael Witzelwho is the main proponent of Aryan Migration Theory),both mainstream theory supporters and Indegenous aryan theorists.If you are unaware of it ,I cannot help it.
Second if you are so aware of rig veda,Kindly provide proof for your claims about rigveda speaking about swat and northern areas of pakistan.Rigveda has enough details of its geography flora and fauna.So kindly justify your claims with the same.
And another thing is the fair skinned blue eyed aryans or the migration/invasion theory.Genetical studies carried out till date has proved that no migration has taken place from west to India atleast from 4500BC to 600BC.If you are unaware of it kindly have some good reading and then start the debate.Dont act irresponsibly by refuting everything and anything told by Indians.
If you are refuting me then prove it.
ie provide the proof of latest genetical studies supporting invasion/migration.
Your theory of 3000 years adoptability is speaking about your depth of knowledge in the subject.So kindly explain the spn of 3000 years.. and the adoptability that you are speaking..?.

First thing my question was to Cyrus and not you..
Second we already had this debate and when you were not able to justify your claims,as always you ended up calling names.So I am not interested in such a debate with you if you are going to show your abusive behavior.
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 22:37
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think skin color can be certainly to sunlight but eye color is said to be a genetic trait passed down from generations of ancestors, it seems to be clear that people who have Turkic, Arabic, African or East Asian origin can't have blue eyes, unless they have an European or Iranian origin too, about Indians, except some northern Indian peoples, I believe the majority of them adopted an Indo-European culture, so there was not really a mass migration to this region.
 
I have visited some different countries in the Middle East, this eye color was really an interesting thing for me, for example in UAE, it was not really difficult to find some fellow countrymen by considering this thing.

How can an established civilization which spanned over 2 million kilometres completely adopt a foreign culture including language without leaving even a trace of the original culture and language which it once used to follow..?And from the adopted language how can so much of different languages dialects(other devnagari languages other than sanskrit which is spoken in India) originate within such a short period of time say 1000 years..?And how can so much of literatures written in the newly adopted language(sanskrit) within a couple of centuries..?
Kindly read it as 2 million Square kilometres.
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 22:58
^ the whole world believes in the migration theory, also i never said (today's) india was invaded, i am only talking about northern pakistan which was invaded, so yes, aryan invasion theory does not effect today's indians who are pretty much the same people north/south. They have nothing to do with the original aryans, you guys just adopted their culture, just like today you have adopted english ( a british) language, nearly every indian speaks english, same way you adopted the aryan languages aswell
 
There is a reason why northern pakistanis and even many kashmiries look different from most indians who are mostly dark skinned natives.


Edited by balochii - 06-Dec-2010 at 23:06
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 23:09
Originally posted by balochii

^ the whole world believes in the migration theory its you people who dont, sarawasti location is not proven, its only you people who believe in it, also who are those fairskinned people of northern pakistan? they are the oldest indo aryan tribes who have survived
Dont repeat what you said..
Provide proofs ... Thats what is needed.
I have enough proofs for justifying my claims..and had provided it earlier.I can provide more if required..
And you are not scholar enough to decide who are aryans and who are nonaryans.Infact your not providing proofs is speaking about the depth of your understanding.
Kindly dont waste our time if you are not having anything to justify what you say or what you believe.
And again you are drifting away from the topic to your favourite racist theories.so its better to stop now or provide some proofs to justify your claims...

You had been making baseless claims about Origin of Sanskrit , Aryan Invasion, opposing genetical proofs , questioning archaeological , archaeo astronomical proofs and even accounts from rigveda and existence of Saraswati..
It doesnt matter what  you believe
Well you prove your arguements instead of deviating the debate...
Provide some proofs..


Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 06-Dec-2010 at 23:18
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 23:36
^ give me your exact lists of proofs first, other then nationalistic hindu agenda. then i will discuss it more. again, its not me who is saying this, i would rather believe international people then hindu nationalists
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 23:48
Dear friend it is you who questioned my proofs first and then claimed some thing.So prove you claims.Instead of slipping away.
We have had many such debates and in every such debate you have either questioned the authenticity of the proofs provided without even going through it or started calling names and abuses but in none of the cases you have been able to provide a proof.
so lets now see what you can provide balochii.. so dont try to slip away..provide some proofs for your claims ie origin of sanskrit as well as rigveda in pakistan and accounts of exessive drinking of soma in rigveda and mentioning of swat in rigveda etc
If a proof provided by me is not authentic you have to prove it ie first analyse it instead of painting it as nationalistic.Nobody here is telling you to believe anything,you are free to believe what you believe but when you preach it you have to prove it..
None of the International scholars had put forth a swat origin of sanskrit and rigveda.It is you who claimed it.
So give some proofs for your theory


Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 06-Dec-2010 at 23:52
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2010 at 00:12
^ even your own nationalistic indian scholar is saying this about swat, infact much of the things that are mentioned rig veda are found in northern pakistan, not in todays India, read this article, i dont agree with everything in this article because its written by a nationalistic scholar, however read about swat and northern pakistan: http://www.hujra.net/index.php?topic=5693.0;wap2


Edited by balochii - 07-Dec-2010 at 01:36
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2010 at 06:39
Your link is not  at all saying that rigveda originated in Swat.And it is not saying or indicating a Peshawar origin for sanskrit.It is trying to say that Rigvedic aryans might have stayed in swat and 
indicating the word Suvastu in Rigveda ( 8.19.37)also trying to explain an eastward spread upto peshawar but no mention of rigvedic geography flora and fauna.
Ya I too agree with much of it but disagree with some.Much of todays pakistan must have been part of Aryavarta.Earlier also I have said so and in one or two treads I have posted the map of Arya varta too.But that doesnt say the culture originated there.

19th hymn of 8th mandala is actually a praise of agni composed by Sobhari Kanva and of the 37 verses only one is mentioning suvastu and in what context..?

(Rigveda 08.19.37) as per Griffith's translation is

"And Syava too for me led forth a strong steed at suvastu’s ford

A herd of three times seventy kine, good lord of gifts he gave to me."


So what is it saying about Suvastu or swat river..?  

And  you told much of the things mentioned rigveda are found in northern pakistan,What are those..?And what part of Rigveda is disagreeing with the landscape of todays india..?kindly clarify.



Edited by ranjithvnambiar - 07-Dec-2010 at 07:31
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2010 at 08:54
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

How can an established civilization which spanned over 2 million kilometres completely adopt a foreign culture including language without leaving even a trace of the original culture and language which it once used to follow..?And from the adopted language how can so much of different languages dialects(other devnagari languages other than sanskrit which is spoken in India) originate within such a short period of time say 1000 years..?And how can so much of literatures written in the newly adopted language(sanskrit) within a couple of centuries..?
 
Did you know that the number of Persian handwriting books in India is more than Iran? Maybe you think India was also the origin of Persian culture? What is the distance between Britain and and India? I don't know why English is an official language in India! Maybe there was also a mass migration from Britain to India?
 
You can go to the southeast of Iran to see some traces of original Indian culture and language, people who live there speak Brahui language, a Dravidian language which was spoken in the large part of Indian subcontinent before adoption of Indo-European culture. Brahui people have preserved their original Indian culture, the difference between their language and Indo-European languages is clear.
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2010 at 12:29
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Your link is not  at all saying that rigveda originated in Swat.And it is not saying or indicating a Peshawar origin for sanskrit.It is trying to say that Rigvedic aryans might have stayed in swat and 
indicating the word Suvastu in Rigveda ( 8.19.37)also trying to explain an eastward spread upto peshawar but no mention of rigvedic geography flora and fauna.
Ya I too agree with much of it but disagree with some.Much of todays pakistan must have been part of Aryavarta.Earlier also I have said so and in one or two treads I have posted the map of Arya varta too.But that doesnt say the culture originated there.

19th hymn of 8th mandala is actually a praise of agni composed by Sobhari Kanva and of the 37 verses only one is mentioning suvastu and in what context..?

(Rigveda 08.19.37) as per Griffith's translation is

"And Syava too for me led forth a strong steed at suvastu’s ford

A herd of three times seventy kine, good lord of gifts he gave to me."


So what is it saying about Suvastu or swat river..?  

And  you told much of the things mentioned rigveda are found in northern pakistan,What are those..?And what part of Rigveda is disagreeing with the landscape of todays india..?kindly clarify.

 
 
aryvarta did not inlude 80% of today;s india, it might have only included parts of punjab, himchal, haryana thats it, it included most of northern pakistan, which was probably the center, or perhaps northern afghanistan was the center, but it wasn't todays india.
 
 this makes sense, 80% of indians today are not of aryan origin, again like cyrus said, most indians adopted aryan culture in every form of way.


Edited by balochii - 07-Dec-2010 at 12:30
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.