Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

God is known to God
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
dattaswami View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl

Suspended

Joined: 11-Nov-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 34 		  Quote dattaswami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: God is known to God
    Posted: 19-Nov-2010 at 21:03

God is known to God


(God is known to God and hence the prerequisite condition is fulfilled.  For human beings, the unimaginable God can exist like the unimaginable miracle).

        Veda says that the knower of God is God Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva…). Hence, though God is unknown to human beings, He is known to Himself. If you say that the existence of anything must satisfy the prior condition of its knowledge, the rule is not violated since God is having His knowledge.  Then, you may say that God exists for God only since the prior condition is limited to God only. This is not correct because you are agreeing the existence of an unimaginable miracle also in the world.  When the miracle is demonstrated, it is unimaginable but its existence in the world is accepted.  Hence, the existence of unimaginable item like miracle exists in the case of human beings.


(The concept of unimaginable nature requires the relative existence of the concept of imaginable nature).

        To recognize day, night should relatively exist. Similarly, to recognize the existence of unimaginable nature, relatively the imaginable nature must exist.  If everything is unimaginable there is no significance of the very concept of unimaginable nature. Therefore, the world with imaginable items exists, so that the unimaginable nature of God can be recognized significantly through relativity.

Back to Top
p,c,ma View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 08-Sep-2010
Location: Tennessee
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119 		  Quote p,c,ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2011 at 21:34
But if god is known only to god then there is no way that Moses, Jesus, and Mohammud could never have seen him. This is more of a Grand Architect way of looking at it then the standard way.
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2011 at 13:11
Originally posted by p,c,ma

But if god is known only to god then there is no way that Moses, Jesus, and Mohammud could never have seen him. This is more of a Grand Architect way of looking at it then the standard way.
 
It maybe more standard than it appears.  "To know" God is usually used as understanding the deity's exact nature. All three big Abrahamic religions teach that this is impossible for humans.  Consider the following paraphrased stories from Islam and Judaism:
 
Islamic mystic ascends to heaven (a garden). There he sees and describes many wonders etc.  But..."in the farthest reaches of the garden, there was a shadow.  He then states "I saw everything, yet I saw nothing".
 
In another story, a Jewish mystic ascends to heaven and to a degree, gets to "know" the diety behind the scripture.  He describes the throne and  the robes of diety (embroidered with Hebrew scripture).  Yet he is dumb struck and cannot describe the actual diety.
 
Christian saints also describe similar concepts to the Islamic and Jewish stories above.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 02-Mar-2011 at 13:12
Back to Top
p,c,ma View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 08-Sep-2010
Location: Tennessee
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119 		  Quote p,c,ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2011 at 16:52
But how dould they no that the are seeing the true deity.
 
And for another thing how can anyone know god if god is only known to himself. Its a bit of a conundrum.
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2011 at 22:54
"conundrum", meaning;

http://www.ask.com/web?&o=101881&l=dis&q=conundrum%2c%20meaning

When it really comes to conundrums on this site, then you must know that it is I who usually proposes such!

"co·nun·drum (k-nndrm)
n.
1. A riddle in which a fanciful question is answered by a pun.
2. A paradoxical, insoluble, or difficult problem; a dilemma:"

If none of your are ever wondering about the "problems" that I suggest most oft, then you merely fail to see the "conumdrum" that I most oft create?

Regards,


http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
p,c,ma View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 08-Sep-2010
Location: Tennessee
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119 		  Quote p,c,ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2011 at 07:37
Got ya, but meaning 2 does definitely go with this subject.
 
As this is a theological question it can only be answered with other questions and that makes it a paradox.
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2011 at 13:32
Originally posted by p,c,ma

And for another thing how can anyone know god if god is only known to himself. Its a bit of a conundrum.
It knowing (truly understanding) the diety is impossible. 
 
Instead of a conundrum, I like to think of it as a singularity.  Much like in a black hole, the laws of physics, cause and effect, time and concepts such as infinity break down, the closer one gets to understading the diety, the more human logic, experience, emotions etc break down.
 
Originally posted by p,c,ma

But how dould they no that the are seeing the true deity.
 
This is an interesting logical contradictionSmile.  The contradiction, however, might not exist in close proximity to God, much like physical laws become bent in a singularity.  


Edited by Cryptic - 04-Mar-2011 at 13:57
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2011 at 19:45
At the end of this thread, I see nothing, nothing but a great Black Hole!

Regards,

Ron (PS-welcome back Hunter!)
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
p,c,ma View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 08-Sep-2010
Location: Tennessee
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 119 		  Quote p,c,ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2011 at 09:56
Didn't even know I was gone.
 
And I like black hole arguments .
 
Oh, and Cryptic thanks for adding absolutely nothing new to the argument.
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2011 at 19:31
God might be known to God, but still God wouldn't be able to prove to themselves without a shadow of a doubt that what they perceive is anything other than illusory. Smile
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2011 at 20:07
On the contrary they not only would..... but would also remind lesser mortals such as myself that it is not wise to doubt omnipotence and omnipresence.....less in a thundering moment of clarity it would be demonstrated that even illusion is illusory to those who do not own the double o's.LOL
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2011 at 21:25
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

On the contrary they not only would..... but would also remind lesser mortals such as myself that it is not wise to doubt omnipotence and omnipresence.....less in a thundering moment of clarity it would be demonstrated that even illusion is illusory to those who do not own the double o's.LOL

Not only would I be interested to know how they were able to prove without a shadow of a doubt that what they perceived was anything but illusory, I would also like them to create a rock so large that they couldn’t pick it up. LOL
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2011 at 23:53
But my new friend this is where you err and must return to my previous.....they have no requirement laid on them to explain anything, no matter how innocuous and or well meaning it might be. And like this.... the rock has no merit for that would be an impossibility for a double 'o' for numerous reasons.....one..they have no need to prove their status and two it... given their status... would always be possible..Wink
 
But I like your mind.Big smile
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 07:12
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

But my new friend this is where you err and must return to my previous.....they have no requirement laid on them to explain anything, no matter how innocuous and or well meaning it might be. And like this.... the rock has no merit for that would be an impossibility for a double 'o' for numerous reasons.....one..they have no need to prove their status and two it... given their status... would always be possible..Wink
 
But I like your mind.Big smile

Ah yes, but surely this is not one of those no requirement laid on them areas, as these are access all areas philosophical questions, where them having no need to prove their status is put aside. Big smile

When you say their status, are we talking about definition of this status, with the possibility that they are not an all powerful omnipotent entity by definition, but a lesser definition of omnipotence? I only ask as usually the former tends to require the possibility for everything to be done, and as you've already suggested elements here to be impossible there would seem to be a discrepancy. Given their status, which you had suggested they might have had where something "would always be possible", would that not include failure too? Big smile  

Just something that popped into my mind, if they were everywhere and in everything, would they also be in those things which are evil? Wouldn't that mean in some way they were evil too?
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
d' artagnan View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar
Spawn of P,C,MA

Joined: 21-Mar-2011
Location: Summertown, TN
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416 		  Quote d' artagnan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 07:33
 
Just something that popped into my mind, if they were everywhere and in everything, would they also be in those things which are evil? Wouldn't that mean in some way they were evil too?
[/QUOTE]

All evil is also good, just as all good is evil. Even saints had their sins. Whether one believes thay are speaking to god or seeing an illusion depends on if they prefer to look at it as a sign from god or a paranoid dillusion.

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.
Albert Einstein



Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 07:50
Originally posted by d' artagnan

All evil is also good, just as all good is evil. Even saints had their sins. Whether one believes thay are speaking to god or seeing an illusion depends on if they prefer to look at it as a sign from god or a paranoid dillusion.

If all evil is good and all good is evil, then how do you tell the difference between them? What is it within evil which makes it good, and what is it within good which makes it evil? And finally, would a person believing they were talking to god or seeing an illusion look upon themselves as paranoid if they were actually suffering from the condition? Smile
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 11:59
In the name of Father,Son and Holly Spirit,have been problem of Theology since beginning.Now is problem of modern science,nuclear physics first.In the beginning was nothing,Energy=Father.Using information (Holly Spirit),matter(Son) was created.If i am wrong just remind me,but we still do not know How.So it would be that,God is known to God only?That's it people,our everlasting search for reasons of creation and it's "know how",tells us that!


Edited by medenaywe - 11-May-2011 at 13:33
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 12:18
Indeed, we stare at the box with Schrödinger's cat, and wait. Smile
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
d' artagnan View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar
Spawn of P,C,MA

Joined: 21-Mar-2011
Location: Summertown, TN
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416 		  Quote d' artagnan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 16:56
The point is that there is no difference between good and evil. They are interchangable with each other, good and bad are part of every thought and every action. No action is ever going to be all good or all evil because no human is all good or all evil.

And of course the person who is suffering from a paranoid dillusion doesn't know it's a dillusion, thus the reason they believe it happened.

As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.
Adolf Hitler
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 17:38
Originally posted by d' artagnan

The point is that there is no difference between good and evil. They are interchangable with each other, good and bad are part of every thought and every action. No action is ever going to be all good or all evil because no human is all good or all evil.

Do we not define good and evil because of the differences and not the similarities? In your opinion what makes evil similar to good? If evil and good were the same would there be seemingly opposing definitions? You say that no action is ever going to be all good or all evil(even though you say they are the same thing) but what do you call the actions of a new born baby?  

Originally posted by d' artagnan

And of course the person who is suffering from a paranoid dillusion doesn't know it's a dillusion, thus the reason they believe it happened.

I think you mean delusion, as dillusion is when a person is deprived of illusion. However when you are reading this you cannot prove without without a shadow of a doubt that what you perceive isn't illusory. LOL 
 


What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.