Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The most oppressed nation in the Middle East

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Poll Question: Which one:
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
8 [36.36%]
7 [31.82%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [4.55%]
1 [4.55%]
1 [4.55%]
1 [4.55%]
2 [9.09%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [4.55%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
TheGreatSimba View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 22-Nov-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1152
  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The most oppressed nation in the Middle East
    Posted: 27-May-2010 at 14:36
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

 
What is the ratio of Persian Zoroastrians to Persian Muslims? The fact is that the majority of Persian Zoroastrians didn't preserve their religion and just a small number of them who lived in some isolated lands, like in the deserts around Yazd, could do it.
It is said Shah Ismail gathered a large number of Sunni clerics in Tabriz and ordered them to insult Abu Bakr, Umar and other Sunni holy figures in public, one of them abstained and was immediately beheaded, and then all other ones did what the king had ordered. For this simple reason, the majority of Iranians became Shia Muslims.
But we know several times in the history, Jews were killed, exiled, or taken as slaves and the majority of them never changed their values, for example we know after the famous battle of the trench (Khandaq), the Prophet said this people never change their relgion, so he ordered to behead all the men of Banu Qurayza Jewish tribe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_the_Banu_Qurayza


But the topic here is which people has been the most oppressed, not which people has been oppressed and still maintained their religion. These are two different topics. If you are talking about oppression, then NO, the Jews are not the most oppressed peoples. In terms of who has been oppressed and still maintained their identity, then yes, you can make a good case for the Jews.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
Back to Top
C. Isaurikon View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
  Quote C. Isaurikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2010 at 18:34
I voted Armenians, the poor buggers.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2010 at 23:38
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

But the topic here is which people has been the most oppressed, not which people has been oppressed and still maintained their religion. These are two different topics. If you are talking about oppression, then NO, the Jews are not the most oppressed peoples. In terms of who has been oppressed and still maintained their identity, then yes, you can make a good case for the Jews.
 
Would you please tell us what the most oppressed nation in the Middle East is in your opinion? According which source you say "Every ethnicity listed has suffered just as much as the others through the course of history"? Most of these nations have lived in their own lands for long times with almsot no problem, but Jews have never lived comfortably anywhere in the Middle East from at least 2800 years ago, maybe just some of them have had a better situation in the recent times (second half of 20th century) and in the Ilkhanid Mongol period (first half of 14th century).
Back to Top
Shield-of-Dardania View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 23-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 357
  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2010 at 05:42
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

Jews have just been very successful in marketing their suffering for political purposes.
You can say that again. So successful that they convinced the WWII winners to take another nation's land and hand it to them. 
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
Back to Top
TheGreatSimba View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 22-Nov-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1152
  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2010 at 07:51
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

 
Would you please tell us what the most oppressed nation in the Middle East is in your opinion?


I'm saying that there is no single oppressed nation in the Middle East. You know the history of the Middle East Cyrus, you should know that every group living there today has suffered at one point or another. Massacres, genocides, wars, displacement, etc... were very common throughout the history of the world.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


According which source you say "Every ethnicity listed has suffered just as much as the others through the course of history"?


Ok, lets go through your list:

Kurds - no homeland, displaced, gassed by Saddam, prevented from practicing their culture and language in some countries, etc...
Assyrians - havent had a nation for thousands of years, displaced, massacred, persecuted, genocide
Armenians - nation was continually being conquered by other powers, persecuted for their religion, genocide, etc...

So you see, the situation of the Jews is not unique at all.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


 Most of these nations have lived in their own lands for long times with almsot no problem, but Jews have never lived comfortably anywhere in the Middle East from at least 2800 years ago, maybe just some of them have had a better situation in the recent times (second half of 20th century) and in the Ilkhanid Mongol period (first half of 14th century).


Are you kidding me? Do you even know the history of the Jews that well? The Jews, first of all, took the land they claim "god gave them" from another peoples through ethnic cleansing. Then like all other kingdoms thousands of years ago, they fought wars with other empires and the Jews happened to lost, and they suffered what all losing people suffered in those times (i.e massacres and displacements, etc...). What happened to the Jews was very common back in those times and it was the victors right to do what they pleased over conquered peoples. MANY ETHNIC GROUPS SUFFERED THIS, THE JEWS ARE NOT SPECIAL.

Like I said before, the "most oppressed" nation in the Middle East are the people who dont exist anymore, who've completely been wiped out. Poor Elamites, they're gone, they're surely one of the most oppressed, along with the Hittites and Babylonians and others who didnt make it.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2010 at 11:31
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

I'm saying that there is no single oppressed nation in the Middle East. You know the history of the Middle East Cyrus, you should know that every group living there today has suffered at one point or another. Massacres, genocides, wars, displacement, etc... were very common throughout the history of the world.
It is clear that you don't want to answer my question and just want to show your disagreement with my opinion by generalization, not by historical evidences. Did I say there is just a single oppressed nation in the Middle East?! We are talking about the most oppressed one. According to which source you say Elamites, Hittites, Babylonians and other peoples who easily changed their identity after foreign conquests were completely wiped out by oppression?!


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 28-May-2010 at 11:34
Back to Top
DreamWeaver View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 02-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 555
  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2010 at 12:06
question on methodology how are you quantifying oppression?
Back to Top
TheGreatSimba View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 22-Nov-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1152
  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2010 at 12:18
Dreamweaver, thats exactly my point. Cyrus, you cannot say that one group of people is more oppressed than another. I already answered your question by saying that there is no "most" oppressed people.

Where is your source that Jews are the most oppressed people?
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
Back to Top
Shield-of-Dardania View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 23-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 357
  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2010 at 12:34
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

Are you kidding me? Do you even know the history of the Jews that well? The Jews, first of all, took the land they claim "god gave them" from another peoples through ethnic cleansing. Then like all other kingdoms thousands of years ago, they fought wars with other empires and the Jews happened to lost, and they suffered what all losing people suffered in those times (i.e massacres and displacements, etc...).
Right on. Again, you can say that again.Approve 
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
Back to Top
ideas View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 02-Feb-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
  Quote ideas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2010 at 15:01
Maybe the question should be a bit more clear, I mean do you mean, who is still opressed or who was opressed?

The answer to the first one is obviouslt jews, though the second one is kurds, as jews and armenians both have a country, so I dont see how they opressed?
Back to Top
Shield-of-Dardania View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 23-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 357
  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 02:46
Jews. The most oppressed people. With 800 nukes. Yes. Of course. And they need them nukes to stay oppressed, don't they?
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
Back to Top
Shield-of-Dardania View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 23-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 357
  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 03:00
How about we create a new land space for exiled Palestinians, Kurds and Assyrians? Sort of a tri-national state. We set up, for starters, as a sort of temporary nursery state for them, some area of multi-bordered land between Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey.
 
When the nursery state is stable and up-and-running, we move the people to a permanent settlement in a donor country. One with land space to spare in abundance, of course. America could be a likely candidate.
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 04:46
You can't compare Palestinian Arabs to Kurds and Assyrians, the fact is that some Turks from Turkistan and Arabs from Arabia have captured the lands of Kurds, Assyrians and Jews, the oppressed nations just want to live in their ancestral lands but the oppressors want to "wipe them off the map".


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 31-May-2010 at 04:47
Back to Top
Nurica View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 26-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 15:50
Always there was a certain number of jews that changed their values, even abandoned their religion... fortunetaly!
In fact, that was exactly what did make millions of middle easterners that converted to islam from different sects of christianism. So we have to ask ourseleves if it is really a virtue to keep no matter the risks to your values, or in fact the poison, the real poison is exactly this fanaticism of some jews (and other nationalists or religious fanatics of other nations) that are to blame for the megatonne of blood that stained the human history.
My question is: virtue or madness, to sacrifice your life in order to "save" (???) your values.   
Back to Top
Shield-of-Dardania View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 23-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 357
  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 20:23
 
Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, killing at least 10 activists and prompting worldwide condemnation Monday.
 
Usual Israeli BS: Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said the organizers of the flotilla were responsible after 10 activists were killed when Israel Navy commandos stormed the ship overnight, Haaretz reported.

Media accounts offered conflicting numbers of the reported dead, with some reporting as many as 20 activists killed when Israeli commandos stormed the flotilla, Haaretz said. However, several Israeli and international media outlets reported 10 activists died.

The wounded, estimated to be about 50, were taken to Israeli hospitals and the ships were being escorted to Israel's Ashdod port, where the passengers and aid supplies would be unloaded and screened. At least four Israeli forces were injured, Israeli officials said (injured by catapults, perhaps).

Turkey's Foreign Affairs Ministry said Israeli troops "used force against civilians ... who wished to take humanitarian aid to Gazan people," Anadulo Ajansi reported.

"We harshly condemn such an inhuman treatment by Israel," the ministry said, adding, Israel's actions "may lead to irredeemable consequences in our bilateral relationships.

Officials said Israel's ambassador to Turkey has been called to the ministry in Ankara to explain, CNN said. France and Greece also called on Israeli ambassadors for an explanation.

White House spokesman Bill Burton said the United States "deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy." (Wow, what a strong reaction indeed.)

The European Union and the United Nations also condemned the raid, The Washington Post reported. The EU called for an inquiry into the deaths.

Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said there was no excuse for an attack "by armed forces on a humanitarian convoy," CNN said. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared three days of mourning.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly canceled his trip to the United States Tuesday because of the incident, CNN reported.

In Jerusalem, Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi said the soldiers were forced to respond with live rounds when they were met by violent activists (Wow!), Haaretz said.

Israel's National Security Council Counter-Terrorism Bureau issued a travel warning to Israelis in Turkey, The Jerusalem Post reported.

Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Daniel Ayalon said at least two guns were found aboard the ships and used to fire at troops, of whom four were injured. (Only 2 guns, aye?)

One organizer denied to The New York Times that Israeli military personnel were greeted with weapons fire.

 
The most opressed nation in West Asia/the world. Of course. Oh yeah.
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
Back to Top
DreamWeaver View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 02-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 555
  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 06:02
Overkill by Israel, operation messed up, but I dont dispute their right to do it.
 
 
 
 
 
(Insert appropriate falmming below)


Edited by DreamWeaver - 01-Jun-2010 at 06:02
Back to Top
Nurica View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 26-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 08:59
Oh yeah, how to dispute "the right" to perpetrate night-time killings in international water?
Back to Top
DreamWeaver View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 02-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 555
  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:23
If you're going to attack the military while doing their job dont be surprised when you get shot in the face.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10206351.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195997.stm

Anyhow there is a speific thread for the Israeli raid in a different forum thread.


Edited by DreamWeaver - 01-Jun-2010 at 10:41
Back to Top
Maximus Germanicus View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian

Suspended

Joined: 08-May-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 171
  Quote Maximus Germanicus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 11:29
Originally posted by DreamWeaver

Overkill by Israel, operation messed up, but I dont dispute their right to do it.
 
 
 
 
 
(Insert appropriate falmming below)
 
I agree 100% They needed to be smarter on how they handled it. They are winning the battles but losing the war. The wars now a days are won or lost on public opinion
Back to Top
Shield-of-Dardania View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 23-Mar-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 357
  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 19:49

No. They had zilch right to do it. The flotilla was not in Israeli waters. It was in international waters. If Turkey decides to take any measures, even the most extremely robust measures, against Israel in relation to this atrocious debacle, Turkey is then fully justified.



Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 01-Jun-2010 at 20:00
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.070 seconds.