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Kurds are German?

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kalhur View Drop Down
Earl
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kurds are German?
    Posted: 08-May-2010 at 13:20
Even Kurds who claim they are pure are even mixed.  As it depends on the location.   Genetic testing found that Kurds of Georgia are closer to Georgians where as Kurds of Turkey were closer to Turks of turkey and Iranians.  Kurds of North Iraq were related to Iranians and populations that live in Northern Iraq like Assyrians and Arabs.  

Here Y-DNA results for average per country or population so not every ethnic group will have the same make up certain citys will be different to another.  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Kurds have no J1 Big smile



Region/Haplogroup
I
R1a
R1b
G
J2
J1
E
T
L
Q
N
Others

Syria
5
10
13.5
3
17
30
11.5
5
3
0
0
2

Georgia
3.5
9
11
31
24.5
2
4.5
2.5
3
0
0
10.5
Iran
3
16.5
6.5
10
12
10
4.5
3
4
4
2.5
27
Iraq
5
6.5
11
3
27
31
11
7
3
0
0
0

Armenia
4
8
28
11
22
0
5
6
4
0
2
12
Azerbaijan
3
7
11
18
20
12
6
11
0
0
0
15


Kurdistan (Turkey)
25
19.5
8
12.5
7
0
2.5
6.5
0
0
0
18.5


Region/Haplogroup
I1
I2a
I2b
R1a
R1b
G2a
J2
J1
E1b1b
(+L)
Q
N1c1

Turkey
1
4
0.5
7.5
15
11
21
12.5
11
2
2
4

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Xorto View Drop Down
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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 13:40
Kalhur i would have never imagined how high the rate of I1 is among Kurds from North but i do have known that there are many Kurds with European features my Mother is for example real Blond and Blue eyed and looks more Russian than many other Europeans.
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Earl
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 14:16
there are surely many people with fair hair and blue or green eyes in both iran and kurdestan too, in my tribe there are many people like that , but we shall not forget the majority of us have dark hair and olive coulor skin. due to the very mixed origin in the same family you can have brothers one very dark and one very light. the peoples are hetrozygous they carry both gens for blue eye and dark eye  and i have a y hg T which is not indoeuropean( maybe eylamite origin) , but my father had green + hazel eyes and mother black eyes i got my mothers eyes , because it is genetical the dominent colour and blue eye is  genetical recessive . anyway what matters the genetic difference between a black african and white is less than 0,001 they both share 99,99% same gens!!and that 0,01% is for both exterieur  colour and mental and behaviour too!!!

Edited by kalhur - 08-May-2010 at 14:19
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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 14:24
@kalhur of course  most Kurds are Black-Brown haired and have manly brown-green eyes. look at me i have  brown eyes and black hair. as Child it was brownish. But hey you look more European than meBig smile
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kalhur View Drop Down
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 14:50
 i look genuin kalhur and i love my tribe . i had an older brother that passed away many years ago . he hade a black dark hair and big black  mustash and very  tal and very atelethic and handsome .
 i always wanted to look like him. he was a very gentle and nice person too RIP. 
 i loved him more than every thing in my life. you see we can be brothers and look very different depending to the gens individualy inherited from our grand parents or ancestors, we are not clones brother can see and look very diferent from each other.
let me tel you a joke .
i had an old relative and he had 5 sons the oldest was very dark and the youngest was almost blond and they looked like each other both the colour was diffrent!!.  i asked him why it is so.
he told me bring a page of paper and a pen,
i did so.
then he told me keep the pen hard and push it hard when you are writing and write A.
i did so !
then he told me next time take the pen gently and soft when you writing  and write  A again .
i did so. then he told me you see when i was younger and stronger  i wrote harderWink and when i get older i coulden't write as hard as before and the colour become more paleLOL
it was my old relatives genetic lessonBig smile about the origin of racesLOL
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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 14:59

Sorry for your Dead brother. Hope he is in Haven inshallah.


@ Nice joke:DLOL

Yes of course a Kurd is a Kurd no matter Green, white, yellow,Black or brown. Important is the Cultur and language!And we fought so many times to be one Nation again and won´t stop till we are!



Edited by Xorto - 08-May-2010 at 15:00
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kalhur View Drop Down
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:14

the joke was a kurdish lesson in geneticLOL
i hope one day in middle east like in europe all nations like iran turkey and irak build a  common market like european union  EC with respect and cultural atuonomy and for all the nations and religious and ethnic  minorities without more bloodshed , nnearly ½ of our villages and smal cities have been ravaged by war between iran and iraqDisapprove we all share acommon old cultural heritage from hindokush to ankara. why should we need to kill each other instead of following the path of civilisation and democracy. inshalah
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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:19


You are right and i would love such a thing. No More borders. So the Kurds can live free thats the only thing i want and what makes most angry. That we Kurds are divided! A Question are you from the USA?

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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:22
no i am living in sweden. 
only 100 years ago there were no border between iran and iraq actually  a part of my tribe is living in iraq , mandali . khaneghin and even many lived in the poor halabjahUnhappy.
 these border was made as late as after ww1


Edited by kalhur - 08-May-2010 at 15:27
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Shogun
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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:36
for 400 Years there were no Border between all kurdish tribes. And i thing 400 Years are enough. Are you full Kurd by genetic or half swedish? i would say you look to me full Kurdish.
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kalhur View Drop Down
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:57
i am ful kurdish with very distant paternal line from fars shiraz(1700 ad) of lore tribe called  zand, but i am married to swedish and have  children and grandchildren wich are mixed kurd/swedish + irish+ englishLOL
 i am the last mohikanUnhappy in the family no one can speak my beloved kalhuri dialectCry these guys in my family can't speak kurdish or farsi and even grand childrens speak only english!! 
i am very disapointed . i have to find a young and nice kalhur wife , before it is too lateLOL


Edited by kalhur - 08-May-2010 at 15:58
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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:00
LOL you are funny man. What is sad is that no one of your childs speak kurdish thats sad. So the Kalhuri dialect will die. You childs don´t need to speak farsi like my childs don´t need to speak turkish it´s not our language just the language of our "beloved" neighbours.
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kalhur View Drop Down
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:12
i will resist to cultural assimilation in europe .
 i 'll marry a nice and young kalhur or kurdish  wifeWink 
anyway the monogamy is a kind of cultural discriminationBig smile imposed  to us by european lawAngry
 a good man should have many wivesLOL
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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:16

LOLOf course but just when your wife accept this otherwise you will get problemsLOL


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kalhur View Drop Down
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:24
i told her about this horrible  discriminationDisapprove she is very democratic  like all the swedes  are and usually against all kind of discrimination, but i don't know why she do not try understand meUnhappy
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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:29
Even for democrats this would be going to farBig smile.  I wish you a good night Iam tired and want to sleep a while
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2010 at 17:02
Kurds and genetics is a bit tricky, because regions where Kurds live, the population have different genetic make up and due to mixing, some Kurds are close to their neighbours.

That date from Eupidia only shows Anatolians Kurds and is both Zaza and Kurmanji speakers combined average.

These are the ones I remember reading about and know top of my head.
Haplogroups

J2 (mesopotamia marker,Assyrians,Sumerians..ect) Is found at around 35% in Kurds from Georgia and Georgians themselves have high frequancey of J2 and is also found around 25% in Iraq Kurds.  Kurmanji Speakers from Turkey have around 10-13% and is around 4% among the Zaza

I - Is a North European marker, Is found highest among the Zaza and Kurmanji speakers from Turkey, Zaza have 30% where the Kurmanji have around 18%.

R1a1, is found at average 15-20% of all Kurds and same average in Iran, and is the Indo-Iranian marker.  Odd that Iran has less R1a1 then North India, who have average of 70%Shocked.  Just shows how mixed West Iranian people are.

P/R2 is found at around 8% in Kurmanji Kurds from Turkey, Haplogroup P/R2 is known as a South Asian marker and is also found in Central Asia.  How did that get their? Shocked maybe the Mittani?



I would not rely to much on genetic testing as, they have only tested a few groups and not each city or tribes, to get a better idea.






Edited by Ince - 08-May-2010 at 17:34
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  Quote Maximus Germanicus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2010 at 00:48
Originally posted by kalhur

Hi maximus
nice to have a real german here to discus this matter,
it would be nice to have your opinion.
is there anything in german school books about the origin of germans from middle east?
i asked the same question from my swedish friends and they were surprised Shocked
they say the closest germanic ethnical peoples are danish and normans and their  less closest relatives are  germans, dutch and british people and the germanic tribes have been in scandinavia from the begining many thousends of years ago maybe from early neolithic or even paleolithic period!!!
what is german scholars saying about the origin of people in Germany?
 
 
I live in the US
 

I am of German descent, My great grandparents immigrated from Germany (The Rhineland and Westfallen respectively) They were fluent German speakers.  My German is OK, the problem is like a posted earlier my grand dads side spoke mostly neiderrheinsch and the my dad’s moms side spoke plattdeustch with the westfallen saxon dialect. It was confusing when I was learning German in grade school, because the language (everybody learns is Hochdeustch) was different than what I picked up growing up. Later In college I learned why, Germany is made up of dozens of dialects depending on what tribe you came from. Some of the dialects can't even be understood by other Germans.

 

Anyway my undergrad was in European History-- I emphasized in Germany during Roman tribes, the early German tribes and the conflict with Rome (since most of that took place where my family came from it was of huge interest to me). I also spent a lot of time studying Reformation Europe. (As we had ancestors who fought for the electorate of Cologne during the 30 years war)

 

Anyway, I am a German American. A Major in the US Army.



Edited by Maximus Germanicus - 09-May-2010 at 00:54
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Azadi View Drop Down
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  Quote Azadi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2010 at 07:10
Where are you all getting those percents from ?
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2010 at 07:46
Originally posted by Maximus Germanicus

 
 
I live in the US
 

I am of German descent, My great grandparents immigrated from Germany (The Rhineland and Westfallen respectively) They were fluent German speakers.  My German is OK, the problem is like a posted earlier my grand dads side spoke mostly neiderrheinsch and the my dad’s moms side spoke plattdeustch with the westfallen saxon dialect. It was confusing when I was learning German in grade school, because the language (everybody learns is Hochdeustch) was different than what I picked up growing up. Later In college I learned why, Germany is made up of dozens of dialects depending on what tribe you came from. Some of the dialects can't even be understood by other Germans.

 

Anyway my undergrad was in European History-- I emphasized in Germany during Roman tribes, the early German tribes and the conflict with Rome (since most of that took place where my family came from it was of huge interest to me). I also spent a lot of time studying Reformation Europe. (As we had ancestors who fought for the electorate of Cologne during the 30 years war)

 

Anyway, I am a German American. A Major in the US Army.

 
That`s nice! Do you know something about Celtic tribe of Treveri ? They lived along Rihne river 2000 years before. According to Julius Ceaser in his "Commentaries on the Gallic War", Treveri lived on both side of Rihne river and had more advanced economy than Germanic tribes on east. What is your opinion about Celtic impact into later Germanic culture?
As a military man it`s interesting to me what you know about the origins of the Prussians? Otto von Bismarck was a idol to Adolf Hitler, but Bismarck as a pure Prussian aristocrat was not a pure German. Prussians were a Germanized by Teutonic orden Baltic nation. One of the three initial Baltic nations. The other two are the Latvians and Lithuanians.
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