Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Where was Varna? What does it mean?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
tzar View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 02-Jan-2005
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 472
  Quote tzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Where was Varna? What does it mean?
    Posted: 24-Oct-2012 at 13:14
First of all you have to define what is slave. This is very important point actually. There is one old Chinese story which tells that mouse afraid  from cat, everyone knows why, then cat from the dog, the dog from the man, the man from the wind, the wind from the castle and castle from the mouse. So it could be rephrase according to today's reality that everyone is slave to another one. Actually t is very hard to enslave someone if doesn't want it. The world is not so simple....
Everybody listen only this which understands.
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2012 at 13:46
Slave is opposite of Master.SmileThat means that person have lost freedom and free will!Person does not rules
his&Her life.I tried once to talk about it here but...Tzar,Varna is not only place on Balkan with this name.Go
to Origins you can find lot of them.Agree with You we have to accept this name according time it was created.
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2012 at 09:31
Originally posted by longbaby

Taking POWs as slaves reminds me of a prehistoric practice. In premitive era, one purpose of people's starting a war is to get more slaves. According to Hegel, to take more slaves meets one's desire to gain more acknowledgement. I wonder what more POWs imply in a war nowadays.

This was the reason why the slave trade was so big in the 18th and 19th centuries. Warring African tribes were given guns by the Europeans in return for prisoners
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2013 at 12:18
VaRNa=Enslaved brat is offered&proposed by&with&in Varna.
Enslaved brat offers&proposes Varna.Period.
Back to Top
mojobadshah View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382
  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2013 at 21:09

The only thing that comes to mind is what Arthur Robin has pointed out: that Varna could be related to Varuna who if I'm not mistaken was associated with the ocean. 

Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2013 at 00:09

VaRuNa=Enslaved-Slavish hand&managment is proposed&offered by&with&in Varuna....proposes Varuna.Enslaved&Slavish hand&administration proposes Varuna.Regards.



Edited by medenaywe - 09-Jan-2014 at 10:48
Back to Top
mojobadshah View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 20-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382
  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2014 at 20:40
Originally posted by mojobadshah

The only thing that comes to mind is what Arthur Robin has pointed out: that Varna could be related to Varuna who if I'm not mistaken was associated with the ocean. 


To add to this I think the place name Buner (in Pakistan) might be derived from Varuna.
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2014 at 23:48
Actually after WW-II German POW's, were treated as "slaves", if not in the USA, but in other places. Thus a former associate of mine, who stated that he was a form NAZI fighter pilot, told me that after the war he was designated to replace the son of an English family via his working for the Mother and Father of the lost son, who died fighting the Germans.

As I remember this man named "Hans", was required to work for and replace a son of an English family for a period of two or more years, before he could be released to return to Germany!

If this was not a form of slavery, I don't know what is?

Regards, Ron
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2014 at 11:59
VaRuNa=Varuna=Enslaved-Slavish-Productive hand-managment is offered-proposed by&in&with Varuna.
Enslaved-Slavish-Productive hand-administration offers-proposes Varuna.
NOTE:Cause slave is product second meaning of this syllable is product.Productive hand sounds
softly as expressive form!"Labor markets" were those places in ancient times!


Edited by medenaywe - 16-Feb-2014 at 16:41
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2014 at 23:39
(No offense but) I did not say or mean that Varna and Varuna were connected, I said that the topic seemed to be about 2 different things varna (colour/castes), and, varena (one of the 16 lands [and also word heaven/sky in Iranian myth (compare sky/water deity Uranus/Varuna?*)]).
Btw the "Thereupon came Angra Mainyu, who is all death, and he counter-created abnormal issues in women40, and barbarian oppression41." parallels Genesis "Adam's rule vs Eve's desire", and women pain in childbirth (& periods).
4 cornered-fortress sounds abit like tetrapolis of Nimrod? or like the Ark of Noah (Peter's vessel in Acts, varuna's clay house in Indian, Yima's var in Iranian)?* or 4 castes?
Dailam/Tabaristan/Gilan sounds abit like Dilmun/Sabit/Gilgamesh??
*Dravidian Varuna is perhaps a bit like Noah?
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2014 at 00:00
It could be.Till the moment i become official source Arthur-Robins.Regards.Smile
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2014 at 15:20

could Ran(g)ha the 16th of the 16 lands created by AM be Lanka? (or Drangiana??) rather than Assyria? Though maybe not since some spellings are abit different, and the land seems to have been cooler etc?

i'm not sure whether the identification of the lands with Iran provinces is right or not.

for 4 cornered Varena (& 16 [4x4] lands?):
4: cornered Varena (14th of 16 lands AM); 4 rivers Eden, 4 corners/winds Heaven [varena], 4 corners/quarters/compass points/cardinal points Earth,
4 corner sheet vessel Peter in Acts [~Ark?], tetraoplis Nimrod , 4 castes/colours (varna) India, 4 beasts/metals Daniel, 4 ages Ovid, 4 suns Aztec,
[4 heads Brahma?]; Varamin 4 cornered fort/castle; Tabaristan roughly quadrilateral; 4 races Egypt (rot namu tamahu nahsu); 4 lands neighbouring Airyana Vaejo (Tur/Toz, Salm/Sayrima, Saini, Dahi);

for 7/5 rivers:
5 rivers Punjab; 5 clans Vedic; 5 peaks meru? zoroaster 5th gen? 5 zones globe; 5 lands Airyana Vaejo & 4 neighbouring;
7 rivers Egypt/Sind; 7 karshvars; 7 castesEgypt; 7 climate zones, 7 stages/spheres ziggurats;

for 16 lands:
8 Nagus Babylonian map? 8 vasus;
16 (4men x 4races) Egypt; 16 lands Ahura M & [16] plagues Angra M; 16/32 compass points
17 provinces Mari
18 signs zodiac Sumerian

I thought Varena/Varn/Varenem might possibly connect with Van (Urartu) but doesn't look like it after checking.
Bara-min means "(created) kinds" in Biblical hebrew.
4 cornered Varena could be Atlantis (large rectangular plain; Varuna is regent of west; varena/varuna heaven / ocean/Poseidon, Urani/Uranes/Wernes/Amenti/Pet), or Shinar/Sumeria (their world was rectangualr plain), or China (earth square)?
Might make more sense as a land/nation/compass point than just a city/fort?

Not sure if Aryana-vaejo & 4 neighbour lands could be Eden & 4 rivers/lands? (d/r interchange?) Or the land and river sounds abit like Aeria & Tritonis?


Edited by Arthur-Robin - 26-Feb-2014 at 19:40
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2014 at 18:56
A nice post Arthur! Good show!

But, I would rather go back in this series of postings to mention the word "Aryan!", and then the backsliding into "race!" Yes I know that in the last couple of centuries it has taken hold as a "skin colour" problem! But, was it originally that way?

I posit, that skin color had little to do with it! In the olden days of the 13th to the 17th century CE, that it seems people were identified via their dress! Thus certain trades-people, were easily identified via the manner of their dress, the colors, the hats, the shoes, etc.!

And I also posit, that religious groups were also identified via the same process. It is well known that Roman Catholics had various bands of "brothers" and "sisters" who defined their status via their apparel!

Thus some wore "white" some "black and white" some "black", etc.! Many of them were also identified via their caps/hats or headwear!

Thus, I posit that the word "Aryan" is a religious term, that described the attire of the member, rather than the skin color!

That is, those represented as "Aryans" were really of a religious group called, as we all well know, "ARIANS!", and "Arianism!"

Check it out!

Ron
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2014 at 23:42
Well that last post(s) of mine was only about one of the 2 rightly or wrongly confounded topics in this thread, where was land Varena/"Varamin" of the 16 lands, not other the Varna &/or Arya/Dasyu one. (The only connection i can see are the names/words Varna/Varena and the 4 cornered / 4 castes/colours.) [ps I wonder if sughdhas & shudra & shutu are related?]
The other (4) varna/castes / (2) Aryan/Dasyu / race / slavery topic is too controversial & difficult/uncertain for me to offer any thing much.
Many cultures had (3) classes/castes/estates (& occupations (& guilds)) like the Indian 4/3 varna/castes.
Sometimes classes are based on conduct/merit/moral/behaviour/ability/character, sometimes "blood/breeding", sometimes they are injust inequalities/discrimination/slavery/race/skin ("adam's rule" / "barbarian oppresion"?). (Golding's 'Lord of the Flies' also has 4 types. 4 classical humours?)
Many cultures/groups seem to of had "good & evil / in & out" "spiritual"/cultural/religious/racial (2) "types/seeds". (So its not just clothing/dress.)
On one hand they may be earlier and later waves/groups.
As far as i understand it the "race/ethnic" was only an issue to some cultures because societies must have a certain amount of common cohesion/integration/unity not just diversity/differences, and races like individuals are all different in inner not just outer (& not just skin) traits (just different not superior/inferior), and to preserve not destroy biodiversity & identity. (Tho it may also connect with the "gods" theories and go back to the sons of god & daughters of men.)
There has been divisions/wars/etc ever since the Fall and Babel (racism, sexism, etc), and christianity re-harmonises our diversity/nations within God/Jesus / common/unity/love/balance (as this system tries to do).


India:
Arya/"Nordic/European/white/fair" - Dasyu/an-arya/a-nasa/"Dravidian/dark/asian" (below);
Devas - Asuras (above);
Kshatriya,Brahman - Vishya/Vipra - Sudra - outcastes/[pariah/chandela]
satya yuga/krita yuga - kali yuga/dark age/pashu;

Iran:
Aria/Arya/Eraj/Iraj - (Salm/Sayrima) - Turanian
aryan - anarian
Ashavan - Drugvan
Ameshas/Ahuras - Devas (above)

Iraq
amelu - mushkinu - wardum/slaves
Sarku - Admu?
capelid - mediterranean?
Semitic - Accadian (AHSayce)?

Biblical/Hebrew/DSS/Christian:
good/right/light - evil/wrong/dark
2 seeds: seed of woman - seed of serpent
sons of light - sons of darkness/kittim
Shem/yah - Japheth/el - Ham/slave
clay - iron(&claymixed)?
lazarus - dives
Jew - Gentile
christian - heathen/pagan/heretic
angels - demons
free (truth) - slave (he who sins is a slave of sin)
God - mammon/usury
spirit - flesh
new man - old man
adam's rule?/[abel's rule] - eve's desire?/[cains desire]

Egypt:
Rot - Namu,Nahsu,Tamahu
Horus race / Horus(-&-Set/Nubti) - Set race / Set
Amonians - Atenists;

Atlantis account:
divine element/nonmaterialistic - lost the divine element/became material/degenerat/decadent/corrupt;
Athens - Atlantis;

Greek:
olympians - titans
Hellenes - Pelasgians?
Spartiates - Perioikoi - Helots
eusebius - machimos
Greek - Barbarian
Athens - Atlantis
Mycenae - Troy
monarchy - aristocracy - democracy - tyranny - oligarchy - ochlocracy

Norse:
Aesir - Vanir?
gods - dark?
Jarl - Karl - Thrall/theow ("swarthy pows")

Modern western world:
good - evil
corporates/producers - consumers/customers/clients
middle class - working class
fit - unfit (evolutionism)
haves - havenots
ruling classes - underclasses
people with unfluoridated water - people with fluoridated water
antiracists/egalitarians/multiculturalism - racists/discrimination/prejudice/inequality/hate;
workers - "bludgers"/slave-for-dole
gold medal - silver medal - bronze
healthy/balanced - mentally ill
lawabdiing - criminal/illegal
[moral - immoral]
landlord - tenant
homeowners - renters
rich/wealthy - poor
"serious" "scholars/science" - "fringe/woo-woo" "sounds-like"

"Satanism"/Occult:
nondual/"both/and"/synthesis - dualist/"either/or"
can exist alone - can't exist alone
2 'types'/'conceptsofdeity': serpent race - adamite/klippoth
dark / left (& right) hand path - light / right (or left) hand path
esoteric - exoteric
master - slave
as above - so below
predator - prey
nature - inverse nature
mesomorph - ectomorph

nazis/nietzsche:
aryan/culture-bearers/herrenvolk - jew/culture distorters/parasite
fighters - lukewarm - traitors
citizen - subject - foreigner
german - slav
common interest - self interests / thralldom of interest
overman/superman - untermensch

nationalists/newright/radicaltraditionalist/eugenics: (note these aren't dualist)
right(&left)wing - left(orright)wing
tribalist/nationalist/racialism/biodiversity - globalist/egalitarian/multiculturalism
class unity - class warfare
"celt - mediterranean/firbolg"
eugenic - dysgenic
genetics - ideology

AJGregor:
men - nonmen

Julius Evola:
spiritual race - material race

[Gerald Massey / Hitler / etc:
in - out/innerenemies&outerenemies]

FPYockey/UlickVarange:
vertical race - horizontal race
european/occident - noneuropean peoples/forces / orient
culture - culture distorters

Allempires/WorldHistoria:
Allempires - worldhistoria?
moderators/[goodposters] - trolls/spammers
[historyfacts - fomenko?]

Irish/Celt:
TDD - Fomor
plant don - plant llyr?
Arthur -- Mordred?/saxons

China:
shen - kwei

NZ/Maoris/Polynesia:
Big ears - short ears
Waitaha - Maori
Maori - Pakeha
tangata rangitira - tangata maori/common/ordinary - slaves
uru - whiro

Peru:
sons of light - giants deprived of light
3 eggs: gold - silver - copper?

star wars:
light side/balance - dark side
republic/rebel alliance/rebelion - empire

terminator:
humans - terminators

'halfmen of o':
[forgot name] - halfies


Edited by Arthur-Robin - 26-Feb-2014 at 23:52
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2014 at 06:47
just thought whether land Varena/Varn/Varenem might connect with suvarnagotra/su-v'arNa-gotra/su-fa-la-na-chli-ta-lo/su-fa-la-na-chu-ta-lo/su-fa-la-nu-kiu-tha-lo/suvarnabhumi "(western) land of women/land of gold/family of gold/golden family/golden clan/golden race/golden matriarchy/amazonian kingdom/matriarchal kingdom" (ladakh) identified by some with Agartha/Agarthi [~ Shambhala?]

there is also "savarna gotra". only 1st 3 castes have gotras/lineages. communities which belong to 4 varna/castes are called savarna.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.066 seconds.