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A Possible Iranian Migration from Scandinavia

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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A Possible Iranian Migration from Scandinavia
    Posted: 23-Jan-2014 at 15:27
If anything, the Northern European migration was towards the Central Asia/Afghanistan/Pakistan region. You find a considerable amount of Northern European DNA there. Iran actually lacks it
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2014 at 18:39
Can any of you think that this is due to the number of Scandinavians that were in the Varangian Guard?

Of course at one time there were the Heruls!

Ron

Edited by opuslola - 23-Jan-2014 at 19:13
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2014 at 23:56
There is almost no mention of Iranian-speaking people before the 8th century BC, it is really possible that these people migrated from somewhere like Scandinavia in this period, and I think the climate change could be the main reason for this migration from the original land of Iranians, the Airyana Vaeja (Iran-Vej) to Eastern Europe and Central Asia and finally modern Iran. We can read in Avesta, the oldest Iranian text:

A Possible Iranian Migration from Scandinavia

The PIE languages were still developing in the 8th Century BCE, so I would suggest that it is possible that the fact that there is no mention of Iranian speaking people could be attributed to this. I haven't read anything that suggests that Scandinavians migrated to the Iranian area, much more likely that they migrated northwards from Turkey, with a possible admixture from north western Asia.


Edited by toyomotor - 23-Jan-2014 at 23:56
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2014 at 09:07
Michael Witzel has done a careful study on the lands mentioned in the Avesta and most of them including Aryana has been located mostly in Afghanistan, but also in other -stans and Iran.  The Sarmatians were known as the Sarmayan in the Avesta and were some of the first converts to Zoroastrianism.  The Sarmatians must have made their way to Scandinavia at some point along with other waves of Scythians to Europe e.g. Ireland, Scotland, England, Germany because their is evidence of Zoroastrian influence in both the Nart Sagas of the Ossettes and Nordic mythology.  Consequently, the characters and stories in the Nart Sagas have been compared to Nordic mythology (as well as Greek myth).  I, personally, would conclude that from Aryana, ancient Irano-Afghanistan, there were Irano-Afghan (mainly Eastern Irano-Afghan) migrations into Europe.  
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2014 at 20:17
Perhaps you can look at this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heruli

Ron
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2014 at 02:20
Originally posted by mojobadshah

Michael Witzel has done a careful study on the lands mentioned in the Avesta and most of them including Aryana has been located mostly in Afghanistan, but also in other -stans and Iran.  The Sarmatians were known as the Sarmayan in the Avesta and were some of the first converts to Zoroastrianism.  The Sarmatians must have made their way to Scandinavia at some point along with other waves of Scythians to Europe e.g. Ireland, Scotland, England, Germany because their is evidence of Zoroastrian influence in both the Nart Sagas of the Ossettes and Nordic mythology.  Consequently, the characters and stories in the Nart Sagas have been compared to Nordic mythology (as well as Greek myth).  I, personally, would conclude that from Aryana, ancient Irano-Afghanistan, there were Irano-Afghan (mainly Eastern Irano-Afghan) migrations into Europe.  


I can't agree with you to that extent. There were movements from the Pontic Steppes to Central and Western Europe, and vice versa, there is no doubt about that. I haven't read anywhere about the Scythians being in Scandinavia. Could you please provide a scientifically based reference which substantiates your post?

I've had a look at Michael Witzels Cv and I question his level of expertise in Eastern European Anthropology, especially people movements. His writings have not received universal acceptance.

Edited by toyomotor - 25-Jan-2014 at 02:32
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2014 at 02:57
Are we questioning the location of Aryana or that Iranian migrations were made to Scandinavia?  Witzel's article on the homeland of the Aryans which is online appeared to be quite systematic to me.  And I find it very hard to believe that all the Avestan place-names which correspond to present day Irano-Afghan place names and the places themselves would have moved.  This is linguistic.  History however is not scientific.  See wikipedias page on the Scythians to see all the people who have notions of a Scythian past.  Joseph Campbell supports the Zoroastrian influence on Nordic myth theory.  That's comparative mythology.  That's sort of science too.    
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2014 at 00:50
mojobadshah, it really seems that most of our history is shrouded in a lot of "Mystery!" But, real and famous historians follow just the same approach because "It is!"

Ron
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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 01:40
mojobadshah: How do you mean PIE myth?

Are you suggesting that the accepted thoughts on the Proto Indo European language formation are erroneous? Could you elaborate please?
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 10:20
Originally posted by toyomotor

mojobadshah: How do you mean PIE myth?

Are you suggesting that the accepted thoughts on the Proto Indo European language formation are erroneous? Could you elaborate please?


I think there's a break down of communication here.  I didn't say anything about PIE myth.  I don't believe PIE is erroneous.  There's nothing wrong with PIE.  I'm merely suggested as it has been suggested to me that not all Norse myth is from PIE.  Some of it is Zoroastrian.  How?  Probably because of the Sarmations Irano-Afghans because they were Zoroastrian and there are several accounts of Scythians in Europe. 

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  Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 19:40
Originally posted by mojobadshah


Originally posted by toyomotor

mojobadshah: How do you mean PIE myth?

Are you suggesting that the accepted thoughts on the Proto Indo European language formation are erroneous? Could you elaborate please?
I think there's a break down of communication here.  I didn't say anything about PIE myth.  I don't believe PIE is erroneous.  There's nothing wrong with PIE.  I'm merely suggested as it has been suggested to me that not all Norse myth is from PIE.  Some of it is Zoroastrian.  How?  Probably because of the Sarmations Irano-Afghans because they were Zoroastrian and there are several accounts of Scythians in Europe. 


Sorry, I thought I saw in one of your posts the words "PIE Myth".

There are accounts of the Scythians in Europe, that's for sure. I've suggested elsewhere that the pale Caucasian features found in some Eastern European countries could have originated with the Cumans, who were fair complection, fair or red hair and had blue or green eyes. I don't know if that is the explanation, but I'm putting it forward for debate. Cheers.
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