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UZBEKS CLAIM THEIR LANDS.
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kutbolsun View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29-Jul-2011 at 06:40
Originally posted by alish

I think uzbeks in Central Asia should wake up and claim their lands - whole Central Asia...... are the uzbek lands...... the inteligent and educated nation in the region....!!!

what a unreasonable and racest opinion!!!!!!!!????
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Posts: 3 		  Quote AmirT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2011 at 14:55
Uzbeks also came from another bigger tribe as the name says itself; Uzbek means "its own boss"
So Uzbeks were a small fraction of a bigger tribe who made themselfs independent.
If you start to talk like this I can say only one thing; give Uzbekistan back to the Persians and go together with Kazaks and Kyrgyz to the steppe's of North-Kazakhstan and Mongolia. There was no such thing as The Uzbek Empire.
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Posts: 2 		  Quote CAsian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2011 at 08:30
I am Kazakh. The topic is extremely provocative. I think we central asians should not take it into account.
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2011 at 07:07
Originally posted by Jelair

I don't believe him

alish is not uzbek

Trully Uzbek can't say this stupid comments or he is just a kid who don't know price of conflict with allies and brothers

 
 
Okay you have made a statement, now back it up. Produce sources, credible sources peer reviewed.  Otherwise your just trolling or trying to start a flame war. 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 3 		  Quote Jelair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2011 at 04:55

I don't believe him

alish is not uzbek

Trully Uzbek can't say this stupid comments or he is just a kid who don't know price of conflict with allies and brothers
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2011 at 00:47
why central asians want to fight each other so much???? through out history you guys have been fighting with each other
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I came here out of interest in learning more about my own ancestral and family heritage, not to engage in this type of discussion, but determined to create an account and respond to this post.

I am a native-born American of mixed European and Asian descent.  My Y-DNA is Haplogroup G, and my mtDNA is Haplogroup D.  These are both well represented in Central Asia, thus making me a far-distant ancestral cousin to Uzbeks and other Central Asian nations.

My wife was born and raised in southern Kazakhstan.  Her mother is Uzbek, and her father is Kazakh.  So I am also a contemporary in-law to Uzbeks and other Central Asian nations.

I have been to Almaty and Zhambyl regions of Kazakhstan.  Many of my in-laws are still there.  I am familiar with some of the issues that exist between Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrgyzstan regarding water rights, oil and gas, etc.  I understand there are issues there with resources and infrastructure that were developed during Soviet time and then divided up arbitrarily.  I also know that ethnic Uzbeks have been displaced by ethnic conflicts in Kyrgyzstan within the past year.

So my point in posting these things is to stress to any Uzbek or other nation with these thoughts of national superiority and conquest of Central Asia... I am your brother by blood and marriage, and I sympathize with your plight, but please do not follow this path of destruction that is being proposed here.

I agree with what other posters have said, that a federation of Central Asian states, with more open borders and mutually beneficial resource arrangements, is the path to improving life for all people of Central Asia, while still preserving national and cultural identities.  It's fine to have pride in your national heritage, not fine to demean others and speak of conquering them based on some presumed national birthright.
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Posts: 3 		  Quote Jelair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2011 at 22:20
As the Kazakh I was shocked by ambitions of Uzbeks. I think that Uzbeks should teach well about true position of Uzbeks and to understand that the mood can change  brotherly intentions of the Turkic states.

This person speaks about what Uzbek earth - not clearly. Listed regions all above are not Uzbek. In southern Kazakhstan over 60 % lives Kazakhs. When they were the Uzbek earths? There is both Slavs and other nations. Earlier I thought that Uzbeks are glad to our level of development. However envy ruins them. I am disappointed in them and I can change the opinion towards other countries. As have shown comments Russian, Kirghiz and Turkmans with the big respect concern us.

To the same Bukhara and Samarkand are the Tadjik cities, and Karakalpakstan is the separate earth. Tashkent was 200-400 years ago capital of the Kazakh khans. But nevertheless we never showed such arrogance and not respect for neighbors.
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Posts: 22 		  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2010 at 14:59

Hi Alish :) 

Regarding your first question: Central Asia was not dear Uzbeks' mother land. Turkic and Mongolian tribes (Iranians were not native to Central Asia either) INVADED the region. So you can't make claims such as "taking back our territory". Specially in this case, Turkmens are even before you here, because Seljuks conquered all Central Asia, Iran, Turkey, a big part of Iraq and Arabic-speaking lands long time before the tribal unity "Uzbek" took over a few hundred years ago. 

Seljuks helped the globalisation process in their time by forming a secure space and a good platform for social works: Iran's greatest cultural and scientific achievements (poets, famous ministers, scientists) occured during Seljuks' reign, Central Asian-Iranian relationship increased at that era and so forth - long before the name "Uzbek". 

There comes also Khwarazmids that is a Turkmen-Kiptchak dynasty. 

You see Kazakhs, Turkmens and Kyrgizes have their own culture and they certainly did contribute to the region a lot - if not more than Uzbeks. Why do you say they "are inclined to wildness"? Because they have preserved their old steppe traditions in a better way than Uzbeks (if the name "Uzbek" has any steppe feeling)?

Second, you can never prove Uzbeks are "the most educated" people in CA by saying Kazakhs, Kyrgizes and Turkmens "are inclined to wildness", for this is not culture my friend :) For me, a Kyrgiz, Turkmen or Kazak is quite more friendly than an Uzbek. Specially in religion: they are much more peaceful than Uzbeks when it comes to religion. It's not only about me, the question is that:

why in Kazakhstan, Kyrgizstan and Turkmenistan, there are always problems with Uzbeks? They don't have a good fame in Russia either.

It makes sense. Do you want to say the problem is on their side - because "they are inclined to wildness" - and not on Uzbeks? Because they are living in "a complete different dimension"? 

You are not the first or the only Uzbek I have seen to make such claims - "take our lands back", "the most educated", etc. And as long as you do so, we will never see Central Asian unity.


öl-gyn natsionalizm, öl-gyn.



Edited by bai_ulgen - 29-Oct-2010 at 01:46
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2009 at 02:02
Originally posted by Bulldog

Alish, its best to put aside the differences, the people living in Central Asia historically are mostly Iranic, Turkic and majority muslim, Ozbekistan isn't going to conquer all of Central Asia and it would be a wasted effort doing so. If the region gets on well then peoples rights will improve aswel and there will be no need to cause conflict and war in order to improve the rights of people in the region.
Regional co-operation is the way forward, when borders become less sensitive everybody can go anywhere anyway.
Iranic?!- who you are reffering to? do you mean tajik? then persian or forsiy would be more proper naming. There are iranians in the region, locals nickname them as 'gilos' - cherry in english, and they are wayyy not majority, very few. I believe you know something about CA nations in general but it's not fleshy enough, you are flipping your thoughts and ideas not specifying.
I didn't say Uzbekistan is gonna conquer.... it would be foolish thought.... but you give real assessment to the situation in the region - what is going on. Building nations' country and securing the ongoing prosperity as a one nation is not a joky stuff. It takes time and effort. How about the character of the nation. I mean what would be the force idea to unite. Everything is messed up - kazakhs, turkmen, kyrgiz are inclined to wildness, tajiks are poised to discriminate.... man, you can't imagine it. What would you expect in this circumstances??? Well, whatever happens, it will be process, process obeys its order, law - in this case - social darwinism.
 
See link below for more info
 


Edited by alish - 02-Oct-2009 at 02:38
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2009 at 16:32
Alish, its best to put aside the differences, the people living in Central Asia historically are mostly Iranic, Turkic and majority muslim, Ozbekistan isn't going to conquer all of Central Asia and it would be a wasted effort doing so. If the region gets on well then peoples rights will improve aswel and there will be no need to cause conflict and war in order to improve the rights of people in the region.

Regional co-operation is the way forward, when borders become less sensitive everybody can go anywhere anyway.
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2009 at 14:05
Originally posted by eaglecap

I think Bull Dog and others are right! They could not retake that land without violence. I am sure the Mexicans, Native Americans and other groups want their land back also. Some Greeks want Constanbionple back but this is not a reality.
Violence?!... I am afraid there wasn't any attempt either to retake, through violence or constitutionally.... Nobody knows what kind of conversation was between Karimov and Gorbachev. But the current situation in CA countries is unpredictable.
The examples were not very good for the topic, but you are right its not reality in modern world order environment. But economic war may give some results. I think uzbeks have long run plans in gaining full dominance in the region in all aspects - economically, politically, and spiritually. One of the biggest problems is geographic condition. But the peace in Afghanistan would resolve the issue.
thank you.
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2009 at 15:04
I think Bull Dog and others are right! They could not retake that land without violence. I am sure the Mexicans, Native Americans and other groups want their land back also. Some Greeks want Constanbionple back but this is not a reality.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2009 at 11:58
Originally posted by Bulldog


The biggest problem in the region is that leaders think they are kings and don't really want the countries to advance too much as people will become more wealthy and will get powerful and question their power. The leaders need to stop being selfish and start working together, there is everything in the region, water, oil, gas, rich natural resources etc but all in different countries so some go without, if there was intergration there would be loss of a problem.
 
No wonder it is.... human factor... that's all about it...... i believe it was never like that where people had a power in CA region in all history..... the core part of it is trust to each other, not just only between the government, but every individual to each other as a citizens of the same country.... there is no respect to each other, no respect to laws, everybody can change their words which does not mean anything and etc. However uzbekistan is pretty much trying to change the youth, like Temur's words 'strengh is in honor' can be found in any parts of the country. But these types of phsychological nourishment can work only to the next generation, but the current generation is nothing but the same stalinistic dogma...... in all aspects....
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2009 at 09:46
Alish
Well, union of state, here again, it depends what the structure, the power balance... is it some sort of federation, or third reigh (structurally only) .... in that case there is gonna be one chief government.... this can cause ethnic conflicts as every ethnicity will push their own to superior levels..... i think it could be possible to create some other identity for all nations that would suite everybody's ideal national identity and be confident. damn who knows.... how about Sogdiana.. hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Big smile

Oz'bekistan is the cultural center of Turkistan and always has been, it would be the ideal leader in the region. However, a deal won't work with one side been given more power than the other. Instead there should be some economic and pollitical integrations while the states remain independant and sovereign but work together on important issues instead of against each other which helps nobody.

The biggest problem in the region is that leaders think they are kings and don't really want the countries to advance too much as people will become more wealthy and will get powerful and question their power. The leaders need to stop being selfish and start working together, there is everything in the region, water, oil, gas, rich natural resources etc but all in different countries so some go without, if there was intergration there would be loss of a problem.


Edited by Bulldog - 24-Sep-2009 at 09:46
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2009 at 00:06
Originally posted by Bulldog


Uniting as one nation can cause more problems than solve them, in my opinion a union of states is the most practical option as the countries will still have autonomy but also unity.
 
Well, union of state, here again, it depends what the structure, the power balance... is it some sort of federation, or third reigh (structurally only) .... in that case there is gonna be one chief government.... this can cause ethnic conflicts as every ethnicity will push their own to superior levels..... i think it could be possible to create some other identity for all nations that would suite everybody's ideal national identity and be confident. damn who knows.... how about Sogdiana.. hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another option would be economical integration....... i am afraid this is not going to work..... there are several issues..... Tajikistan has bad economic conditions, no infrastructure... Turkmenistan went too far in different structural model that is not like any in the world, it is phenomenal btw.
Kazakhstan is experiencing trade balance issues, deeply relies on the west, it is just simple thing about trade, produce something and exchange it to something else, kazakhs put their natural resources, and build illusionous financial market backed with oil, tenge rate increases when oil prices are high, it goes down problem..... no body needs tenge if no oil.... how about infrastructure - transportation- railroads, undergrounds, research centers, universities, sport, entertainment and etc. Honestly i need some reliable sources about the projects in Kazakhstan...... anyway my guess is the country still has opportunities...... but, there is issue, no integration......
 
Originally posted by Bulldog

I have relatives in the region birardar Wink
Ozbekistan is the heart of Turkistan but cannot just act alone, working together is better than working against each other, the whole region is inter-connected.

Just focusing on Oz'beks limits options, national heroes like Amir Timur, Ali Shir Nava'i... etc were not "Oz'beks" but this doesn't mean they arn't the forefathers of the people. They were all muslim and Turkic, if you include Iranics aswel this becomes more inclusive, more likely not to cause conflict and more agreeable to people. Micro-nationalism like Oz'beks or Kazaks trying to be better than each other won't solve anything, it just antagonising the other, promoting the muslim and Turkic and Iranic connections brings people closer together and the region collectively benefits from unity.
 
I am glad to hear that.... well, in terms of spirit i wanted to say that uzbeks don't really have kind of mentality as all muslims like middle east or iran, i am sure you understand that and it is because of nations' own background...... it is too much talk... sorry.
and i am from Samarkand province, studied in Samarkand and Tashkent cities...
 
I am not sure about uzbeks trying better, if there is some issues in cooperations, it is because of the MONEY..... welth or whatever.... but what pisses me off that many kazakhs are in bad mood about uzbeks in everything..... in terms of discussion of some article in different websites... and the worst is Nazarbaev mentioned about regional leader thing.... i mean.... that was not something a President says...... I mean, i think you understand that.... it was not smart words....! but what's the heck, he is just a moron!!!!!
 
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2009 at 05:40
Alish
I understand that.... but would it be really micro nationalism if all central nations unite as a one nation..... ? as it was before..... things are really going bad...... I am not sure if you have been in any of these countries but there are cirtain things that you can't just tolerate....


Uniting as one nation can cause more problems than solve them, in my opinion a union of states is the most practical option as the countries will still have autonomy but also unity.
 
Alish
Uzbeks should buy water in order to maintain its agriculture that causing food prices to increase, lack of oil for industry in uzbekistan and young country can not afford high prices for energy, transportation issues for export first of all........ the one who has water knows shit about agriculture, other than hating..... cause some people forgot who they were, you know, probably time to remember...... cooperation is always the best option, but there should be the way out since the cooperation is not working, the one can not cooperate with everybody...... how about internal conflict ???  and only uzbeks can keep peace in the region, and central asians have their own cultural background, muslim religion is not the factor, there is central asian spirit, probably you don't understand or feel that..... central asians are muslims but it is in harmony with tangrism, zaraotranism and many many cultural elements ...... there are some rituals that are performed during weddings or other major events that are unique to land of Transoxiana inherited throughout the ages.... spirit is different dude!


I have relatives in the region birardar Wink
Ozbekistan is the heart of Turkistan but cannot just act alone, working together is better than working against each other, the whole region is inter-connected.

Just focusing on Oz'beks limits options, national heroes like Amir Timur, Ali Shir Nava'i... etc were not "Oz'beks" but this doesn't mean they arn't the forefathers of the people. They were all muslim and Turkic, if you include Iranics aswel this becomes more inclusive, more likely not to cause conflict and more agreeable to people. Micro-nationalism like Oz'beks or Kazaks trying to be better than each other won't solve anything, it just antagonising the other, promoting the muslim and Turkic and Iranic connections brings people closer together and the region collectively benefits from unity.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2009 at 18:38
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

If you want to revive the Shaybanid empire, you can even claim some parts of eastern Iran but Shaybak Khan, the founder of this Uzebk empire, was badly defeated by Shah Ismail, the founder of Safavid empire.
Shaybek was not the founder of uzbek empire.... it depends how you approach to uzbeks i mean what groups.... because the one that you call uzbek empire was founded by Abulkhairkhan, Shaybek's grandfather. Those were primarily kypchak group, the northerns.... but today's uzbeks are much more broad.... that also include korachoponli- somewhat southerns, ferghana valley, north of afghanistan, and the other khorezmids....
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2009 at 17:37
Originally posted by Hypocrisy

The notion of laying claim to occupied territories isn't rational at all.
 
Sounds very nice word, well, it is not notion for OCCUPIED territories at all, the area - CA surrounding the heartland between rivers are the uzbek lands, ca countries, south kazakhstan, north of afghanistan.....
 
Originally posted by Hypocrisy

Once you ruled a certain quantity of land, does it ever belong to you? Once you got kicked out of your homeland, you have to strive harder to take down the invaders through conflict instead of claiming your homeland. The local inhabitants of a certain terrain might be evacuated/immigrate to somewhere else for some reason. It doesn't necessarily mean they will turn back.
 
You mean who was kicked out from where, everybody is pretty much there..... I was mentionin about the people that lived and live in cities, villages, who built states and so on, the majority of other nations in ca never saw a paper until recently, and btw there is tajiks which is very complex part. Tajik means 'inhabitants converted into muslim' from arabs.... but only the city inhabitants.... a lots of things to talk man.....
I can see your location is in Smyrna.... never been there all i know I ve read stories about some crusaders in Smyrna, maybe i am a little wrong, but i appreciate your words....
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Posts: 17 		  Quote alish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2009 at 14:07
Originally posted by Bulldog

Micro-nationalism won't achieve much, the Central Asian states have enough resources between them to be self sufficient if they work together, working together is the way forward. These borders are artificial, most people in the region are muslim, Turkic and Iranic if they form a union human rights in general for all groups could improve. The main problem is the leaders, they care more about their position on the throne than the benefit of their people.

I understand that.... but would it be really micro nationalism if all central nations unite as a one nation..... ? as it was before..... things are really going bad...... I am not sure if you have been in any of these countries but there are cirtain things that you can't just tolerate....
 
Uzbeks should buy water in order to maintain its agriculture that causing food prices to increase, lack of oil for industry in uzbekistan and young country can not afford high prices for energy, transportation issues for export first of all........ the one who has water knows shit about agriculture, other than hating..... cause some people forgot who they were, you know, probably time to remember...... cooperation is always the best option, but there should be the way out since the cooperation is not working, the one can not cooperate with everybody...... how about internal conflict ???  and only uzbeks can keep peace in the region, and central asians have their own cultural background, muslim religion is not the factor, there is central asian spirit, probably you don't understand or feel that..... central asians are muslims but it is in harmony with tangrism, zaraotranism and many many cultural elements ...... there are some rituals that are performed during weddings or other major events that are unique to land of Transoxiana inherited throughout the ages.... spirit is different dude!
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