Abortion a human right?

Originally posted by pinguin Originally posted by Carcharodon ...All countries have their flaws. No country is extremely developed. But if one shall brag about ones country Sweden has got rather good scores in different UN listings concerning health care, women liberation, equality, the caretaking of children and similar.     Oh yes. And in porn production as well

No. Stop repeating that nonsense myth.

Originally posted by Al Jassas I forgot the right of the father, if the father is a partner, spous etc, he has as much right to the kid as the mother.    By the way, why should abortion be a human right while circumcision is on the edge of being banned (at least in Sweden)? There is no comparison between murder and cutting a piece of useless skin yet somehow a dogged campaign against circumcision is all over europe while abortion is OK?   AL-Jassas

Originally posted by Al Jassas I forgot the right of the father, if the father is a partner, spous etc, he has as much right to the kid as the mother.    By the way, why should abortion be a human right while circumcision is on the edge of being banned (at least in Sweden)? There is no comparison between murder and cutting a piece of useless skin yet somehow a dogged campaign against circumcision is all over europe while abortion is OK?   AL-Jassas

Male circumcision is not on the edge of being banned - it's not even discussed. Female circumcision on the other hand, which in most cases have been shown to be a very dangerous practice, is banned. Many female organisations in Africa have sprung up to stop it. The aim to end this practices have also been adopted by the African Union. Anyhow, it's hardly comparable, as you say.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 12-Jun-2009 at 12:53

Originally posted by Carcharodon Originally posted by Al Jassas I forgot the right of the father, if the father is a partner, spous etc, he has as much right to the kid as the mother.    By the way, why should abortion be a human right while circumcision is on the edge of being banned (at least in Sweden)? There is no comparison between murder and cutting a piece of useless skin yet somehow a dogged campaign against circumcision is all over europe while abortion is OK?   AL-Jassas   Wether one can define abortion as murder or not depends on if we regard an undeveloped embryo as a person or not.   The qeustion of circumcision is a rather unrelated question. Maybe that discussion is not so much about the skin itself but about if we shall accept religious practises that affects people physically in a secular society.

I'll agree that a definition of "person" and the religious or scientific comparison of that with an embryo needs further clarification (on this thread). Without religious knowledge how would we know when an embryo becomes a person anyway?

Being that circumcision is an adjunct to this discussion I'll hit upon that too.
...isn't it a secular citizen's right in choosing to keep his forskin or snip it off even if it were for health reasons?


Edited by Seko - 12-Jun-2009 at 15:53

Originally posted by Seko ...and isn't it a secular citizens right in choosing to keep his forskin or snip it off even if it were for health reasons?

Sorry. I guess i was suffering from a touch of the literals. Probably I should have been vaccinated against it as a kid

Originally posted by Carcharodon ...  Wether one can define abortion as murder or not depends on if we regard an undeveloped embryo as a person or not. ...

Originally posted by pinguin   Another pro-abortion semantic trick.   The matter is not if the child is a person or not. The problem is if it is a human being. In my case, I am not going to judge the killings of babies that are practised by abortionist countries. I am only judging its HYPOCRESY.   If they allow to kill children inside the womb, why they send women to jail if they kill a four year old child? What's the difference?

Edited by Carcharodon - 12-Jun-2009 at 16:49

Originally posted by eaglecap Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Recently, in connection with the election to the EU parliament, a female politician here in Sweden said that she thinks that the right to abortion is a human right and should be considered so also internationally. Regardless of whether it is or should be legal or illegal, its not a human right.I can't stand it when someone pulls a human right out of their arse then demands that everyone follow it as a "international human right".In Australia, its a human right to have a telephone. I'm sure it'd be much appreciated if we started given other countries moral lectures about telephones. And some women also refer to this as a question specifically for women, and that men ought to have no saying in these matters. It takes two to make a baby there should be two who have a say.Of course, if the man abandons the woman that is his say. Once in a while we agree on something. Human life is sacred and even the doctor who was murdered by that nut case had a right to live. I wonder what part of Hell he is in?

Now that's just rude and insensitive.  He's going to hell because he provided women a legal service, that you don't agree with?  There is no Hell, in my religion at least, so I think he'll be in Heaven.  

I wonder when they will start killing babies after birth because maybe they wanted a boy instead of a girl or maybe blue eyes.

This is a ridiculous statement and not the same thing as abortion or the thought process that goes into getting an abortion.  

This is only my opinion but no it is murder plain and simple but say what you want I will not change my view but it is no wonder the western nations are dying and why they will be replaced with workers from 3rd world countries. How many aborted in the USA? Last I heard 45 million souls. It is reality in my country and I have to accept it but I believe the women should be required to go through counseling first and given all the options such as adoption first before she says yes to abortion.

People seem to be under the impression that women who choose to abort their pregnancies, for whatever reason, do it with little thought or not knowing their choices.  Do you know anybody who had an abortion?  One of my very close friends had one, she could hardly be said to have gone into it without knowing her options.  She was effected great deal by undergoing this procedure, mentally and physically.  The fact of the matter is that she was in no position to have a baby, no insurance, no familial support structure to speak of, no money with which to support the child after it was born.  She made the right decision for her.  She knew her options.  As a friend all I can do is support what ever decision she made, because that's what friends do.  If it were me in that position, would I do the same thing?  I don't know, maybe, maybe not.  All I know is that's one of the hardest decisions any woman will make in her life and she sure as hell doesn't need people telling her she a murderer or telling her that she can't make that decision.  A woman going through that procedure doesn't need to be made to feel any worse, she already feels horrible.  As you can probably tell I am pro-choice, I believe that as a man I have no right to tell a woman what she can and/or cannot do with her body.  The fact of the matter is that I will never have to make that decision so my say should not matter as much as her's does.