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He wanted himself executed - he broke his own rule
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reginr View Drop Down
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  Quote reginr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: He wanted himself executed - he broke his own rule
    Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 00:36
Hello everyone,

I would like to validate if there is such a king/emperor that was so strict that when he broke his own law he ask that he himself be executed, but his subjects refused and rather just put him into excile.

Your response/advise is highly appreciated.

r1e1g1i1n1_1r1o1d1r1i1g1u1e1z@y1a1h1o1o1.1c1o1m (please remove the 1s)
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 12:11
It rings a faint bell, but irritatingly I can't put a finger on it. I don't think king/emperor is correct though: I'm sure it was a political leader.
 
In fact what goes 'ding' in my mind is Confucius. I'll try and check.
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Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 12:47
Not quite what you are looking for, but the distinguished citizen Socrates broke the laws and insisted that the sentence of execution be carried out. This was despite being offered the opportunity to escape by his followers. His reason for this was his strict respect for the laws of his state.

This is as close as I can get off the top of my head.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 19:56
Again not exactly what you was looking for, but Dutch statesman Johan van Oldenbarnevelt was beheaded for treason in 1619. He could have received an amnesty, but begging for amnesty would imply admitting his guilt. He insisted he was innocent, and rather wanted to be executed than to admit he was guilty.

Another example that's not exactly what you're looking for but nonetheless close is general Ochoa who was executed in Cuba in 1989. He commanded his own firing squad.
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Posts: 2091 		  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 20:24
Originally posted by gcle2003

It rings a faint bell, but irritatingly I can't put a finger on it. I don't think king/emperor is correct though: I'm sure it was a political leader.
 
In fact what goes 'ding' in my mind is Confucius. I'll try and check.
 
You were on the right track, I believe. The story that I recall was that of the Chinese general Cao Cao (alternately spelled Tsao Tsao, I believe). He was a regent for one of the Han emperors as that dynasty was disintegrating. The law he broke had something to do with allowing his horse to wander and destroy crops, and it was only after his subordinates begged him not to go through with it and noted that he was the only thing holding the empire together that he relented. I don't recall him being exiled, but my memory is far from perfect. That's the story as I recall it, anyway, but I'm sure I got some facts mixed up.
 
As I recall, I ran across it in some commentary on Sun Tzu's Art of War, but it's been so many years that I'm afraid I can't tell you anything more. Sorry, but I hope what I was able to recall helps.
 
-Akolouthos


Edited by Akolouthos - 04-Mar-2009 at 20:28
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Posts: 0 		  Quote reginr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2009 at 06:14
Thank you everyone for the reply, I greatly appreciate your input.  Akolouthos, I believe that is where I heard the story (art of war) I will look into it more.  Thank you again



Edited by reginr - 05-Mar-2009 at 06:15
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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2012 at 19:50

Several generals voluntarily committed suicide to avoid the shame of a trial, most notably Erwin Rommel
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2012 at 20:31
But here the apple is requesting execution....the pear is performing suicide.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2012 at 19:36
Marshal Murat was allowed to give his own firing squad the order to fire. A Latin American general did something similar in more recent years
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2012 at 20:25
Murat was a vain and egotistical pos that, unlike his master, who was also vain and egotistical, was never suited to do much more then command men in battle at the Brigade level. There he was extraordinarily brilliant and as the Cavalrymen of his day...knew no fear.
 
Feed any one enough bullshit... to include a cavalryman...they will soon find themselves beyond recovery.
 
But...because I loved the vain and egotistical bastard he was....He stood and died like those he led...commanding to the end. Truly for Eylau...all his sins could be forgiven.
 
 
And I already know that 95% of this  active board does not understand a f*cking clue... about what I just posted.
 
 
Tough.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Posts: 1188 		  Quote tjadams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2012 at 22:32
This reminds me of that lowest of cowards Nidal M. Hasan, who did the Fort Hood shootings.
He wanted a death wish and we should oblige with one, now.  No more wasting time. 
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2012 at 19:20
Cuban general Arnaldo Ochoa was given the same "privilege" when he was condemned to death for treason in 1989
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Posts: 1748 		  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2012 at 02:57
Originally posted by Nick1986

Marshal Murat was allowed to give his own firing squad the order to fire.
  
That was Ney not Murat.
 
 
There was a legendary Tlaxcallan general who was captured by the Aztecs after defeating them in a string of battles. While awaiting sacrifice, a revolt broke out in part of the Aztec Empire and he was given command of an Aztec army. He marched out crushed the revolt and returned victorius to Tenochtitlan and to resume his captivity and await his sacrifice. The Aztecs in gratitude offered him clemency, he refused and demanded the sacrifice be carried out instead.
 
 
 


Edited by Toltec - 02-Jun-2012 at 03:08
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2012 at 19:48
Originally posted by Toltec

Originally posted by Nick1986

Marshal Murat was allowed to give his own firing squad the order to fire.
  
That was Ney not Murat.
 
 
There was a legendary Tlaxcallan general who was captured by the Aztecs after defeating them in a string of battles. While awaiting sacrifice, a revolt broke out in part of the Aztec Empire and he was given command of an Aztec army. He marched out crushed the revolt and returned victorius to Tenochtitlan and to resume his captivity and await his sacrifice. The Aztecs in gratitude offered him clemency, he refused and demanded the sacrifice be carried out instead.
 
 
 

That's crazy. I don't understand why he didn't take his new army and defect to the rebels
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Posts: 1748 		  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2012 at 01:37
Because his army consisted of Aztec sodiers.
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2012 at 02:03
Soldats ! Faites votre devoir ! Droit au cœur mais épargnez le visage. Feu ! "Soldiers! Do your duty! Straight to the heart but spare the face. Fire!"
Murat 

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 03-Jun-2012 at 02:06
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2012 at 02:05
"Soldiers, when I give the command to fire, fire straight at my heart. Wait for the order. It will be my last to you. I protest against my condemnation. I have fought a hundred battles for France, and not one against her ... Soldiers, Fire!"
 
 
Ney
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 03-Jun-2012 at 02:06
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2012 at 02:09
take yer pick... they both gave the command.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2012 at 22:02
Speaking of which...did Ney die in France or in America.
 
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 528 		  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2012 at 00:03
Toltec, any Tlaxcalan who led an Aztec Army was indeed a traitor to his nation, even if his purpose was to see many of his enemies die. Tenochtitlan's enemies were Tlaxcala's friends, at least until 1519.

I wonder if we should include Michael Collins, who shook the hands of his firing squad and enjoined the boys to be true to their oath and shoot straight? Didn't Maxmillian do something similar in Mexico? I remember a story from El Paso whereby Pancho Villa took some of the captured officers from the Juarez garrison to dinner in El Paso, and during the meal one of them said that now that they were in the United States, they were not obliged to return to Mexico for their execution. Villa agreed, but reminded them that they were Mexican officers, and expected to be true to their oaths, with the result that all returned to Juarez and were executed the following day.
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