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It's starting to look like Mexico is falling apart
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Maharbbal View Drop Down
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Posts: 2120 		  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: It's starting to look like Mexico is falling apart
    Posted: 01-Mar-2009 at 12:15
The lack of US control over gun trafficking to Mexico is indeed scandalous but cannot be considered the main reason why such violence is happening on the Norther border. If they didn't get their weapons from the US, they would get it from somewhere else. These guys are able to bring in tens of tons of cocaine and other drugs, you don't think that a few guns are beyond their reach. At best some small gangs would lose their gun supply. On the other hand, demand for small firearms may create the necessary economies of scale for the Mexican cartels to import big stuff they cannot find in the US market (rockets, mines, machine guns, etc.).

The argument that it is gun control in Northern Mexico that causes the violence is totally bogus because:
1. most of the people killed had a gun in the first place (many gangsters and policemen are shot). What the army brings is not so much firepower as a more organized force.
2. the primary cause of the violence (control over drug trade) makes no sense north of the border.

Cartels are rent-seekers fighting over the control of the smuggling of drugs and to a lesser extent of human beings (coyotes). Self-evidently the best way to stop the violence is to stop the smuggling; this can happen if you end demand for drug and undocumented labour or if you make the trade legal by opening the border to drugs and migrants. It would make good economic and fiscal sense but it is of course politically difficult.
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Posts: 1810 		  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2009 at 07:52
Here we go again, more gun control means more crime.
 
With all due respect AS gun control has nothing to do with the problems in the north, it is the lack of them that makes things go wrong. Even if you arm people there with tanks and F-22's cartels will have the upper hand because they are just too powerful. If police and army could do simply nothing and they have a kill-first policy how the hell do ordinary people going to make use of liberal gun laws.
 
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2009 at 20:59
The CIA makes these problems worse by backing their own cartels and cartels with ties to the Mexican government, against their rivals, mainly local Mexican cartels. If our intelligence agencies simply opposed ALL cartels and patrolled our border, these problems would never reach the proportions they have. But the CIA is an unconstitutional body with no oversight, which is why they can engage in these activities. From their perspective, there are billions in profits to make from the control of drug trafficking in north America. The 'War on Drugs' should be called the 'Drug War', because thats what it really is. Two people trying to sell drugs on the same block are bound to go to war.
 
 
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Plus if one sees where the drug war in Mexico is concentrated he will find that it is in the border states of Chihuahua and Sonora. Other states don't have such a problem as these two states because gun flow is much more limited.
 
You have it backwards. The reason why the violence is much more concentrated in northern Mexico as opposed to the southern US is precisely because most people in the southern US own guns, while Mexicans throughout their country are victims of the tightest gun regulations in the hemisphere. Thats why, despite complete freedom of movement due to an ungaurded border, and freedom to own guns in the US, the drug violence is more than 10-fold inside Mexico than in the US. Because cartels know that the citizens (and even police) in northern Mexico are sitting ducks, and unless there are full-time army patrols in northern Mexico (which they started lately), the people are defenseless. Not the case in Texas, where you can create citizen militias out of a couple of city blocks, and you don't even need police protection from drug criminals, since even granny knows how to use a rifle. Cartels know that everyone in Texas owns guns, which is exactly why they operate a few miles away in northern Mexico.
 
And northern Mexico, in terms of crime rate, is not that different from the rest of the country--- Look at Mexico City, geographically in the middle of the country, and one of the most crime-infested areas in the world. Again, because citizens are unarmed and armed criminals know this. Even southern Mexico is infested with crime, with major rebellions in Oaxaca and Chiapas.
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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2009 at 19:51
No, read the articles. 90% of the weapons come from US and particularly from Texas and Arizona which has I think the most liberal gun laws in the US. Plus AK-47 is manufactured in the US so are many Russian and Israeli guns the mob like. It is because of these laws which makes it legal for gun stores to sell weapons to whom ever comes even if he had connections with drugs and organised crime that exacerbates the problem.
 
Plus if one sees where the drug war in Mexico is concentrated he will find that it is in the border states of Chihuahua and Sonora. Other states don't have such a problem as these two states because gun flow is much more limited.
 
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Kevin View Drop Down
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Posts: 767 		  Quote Kevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2009 at 19:37
Originally posted by Al Jassas

One of the reasons why drug cartels thrive in Mexico is the US itself. All weapons that the cartels have come from the US and US citizens sell these weapons which they can get easily without any checks, especially assult weapons, to the cartels and the US refuses to accept that it is partially responsible for the mess especially in the border cities where Cartels have more weapons than the federales:
 
Al-Jassas
 
I wouldn't say that is nessacerly true as alot of these weapons are coming from China and elsewhere in Asia, if not the majority. In addition the Feds here in the US are beginning to crack down on illegal weapons sales that go into Mexico.
 
Also if you look at much of the weaponary and manpower that cartels have now you will realize that illegal weapons sales from the United tates couldn't have made much of that possible alone.


Edited by Kevin - 28-Feb-2009 at 19:39
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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2009 at 19:31
One of the reasons why drug cartels thrive in Mexico is the US itself. All weapons that the cartels have come from the US and US citizens sell these weapons which they can get easily without any checks, especially assult weapons, to the cartels and the US refuses to accept that it is partially responsible for the mess especially in the border cities where Cartels have more weapons than the federales:
 
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Posts: 767 		  Quote Kevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2009 at 18:59
Here in the US we are getting more and more news about the drug-related violence in Mexico. It seems to be getting worse by the week and it appears Mexico could be very well the next Columbia.
 
Any thoughts in terms of open discussion about the current state of affairs in Mexico at the time being? In addition to it's possible effects on the geopolitics of the region


Edited by Kevin - 28-Feb-2009 at 19:34
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