"Beating" up on Israel?

Originally posted by gcle2003 Only because you insist on treating 'Jew' as a religious designation, which it isn't. You can have Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs and Judaic Arabs. You can have Christian Jews, Muslim Jews and Judaic Jews. What you can't have are Judaic Christians or Judaic Muslims or Christian Muslims.

You' ll make me do what Chilbudios usually does.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Jew

Main Entry: Jew 3: a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people 4: one whose religion is Judaism

The first 2 definitions are omited because i think they are irrelevant in this comment of mine. The second will be used later.

The third is partially true, yet it is not enough by itself to make someone a Jew. For example, just because a descendant of mine was a Jew, this does not make me automatically a Jew. I need to be a member of the Judaic religion as well. To put it bluntly, i do not know any Jews who haven't made circumcision.


Also, about structures:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/relations-jews-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19750110_setting-commission_en.html

RELATIONS WITH THE JEWS   The religious relations of the Catholic Church with world Judaism through the Secretariat for Promoting Christian Unity have been marked by a series of notable events since the last Plenaria. These events are set out below in chronological order.

Originally posted by gcle2003 It has been misused that way, yes. In antiquity it simply meant an inhabitant of Judaea (not even of Israel). Taking it as a religious designation is as ignorant as assuming 'Arab' is a religious designation because most Arabs are Muslims.

from Merriam-Webster

2: a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the sixth century b.c. to the first century a.d.

The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans was the turning point for the Jewish population. They emigrated to the rest of the known world.  Thus,  the term Judaeus or Ιουδαίος practically lost it's terrestrial meaning. Concerning your comparison with Arabs, i believe it is wrong , because the term Arab describes a Semitic people, that is a people speaking a Semitic language. Jews never spoke one language. Some of their languages were not even Semitic. Ladino are a Romance language and Yiddish a Germanic one, to name the most prominent. Only in the last century ,with the creation of the State of Israel and it's need for nationalization (modern) Hebrew became the prominent  language among Jews.




Plus, the fact that i can be officially considered a Jew after conversion to Judaism, automatically gives the term religious reference.

 

See http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3274735,00.html 

 

As I understand it, a Jew that converts to Islam (or was born Muslim) will then be subject to the Islamic religious courts, not the Judaic ones, on matters like marriage and divorce. Status before the criminal courts, and citizenship, will not change.

 

That seems reasonable to me. If he/she believes in Islam, then presumably he/she will want to come under the Islamic religious courts, not the Judaic ones.

 

What is a little odd about the setup is that there are various kinds of Catholic/Orthodox denominations catered for, but not Protestants.

 

You can be a Christian Jew. In fact there are many of them around, forming quite a strong movement. Fundamentalist Jews and fundamentalist Christian groups don't like them but they're there. And they have the same rights of return to Israel as any other Jew.

 

This emphasis on 'Jew' as a religious designation is one of the things I find sickening about much of this debate. I've known many Jews who weren't in the least Judaists, including Israeli citizens. And Hebrewtext is perfectly correct in everything he has been saying on this subject (whatever other disagreements we may have).

 

Of course Judaism is somewhat favoured in Israel, but nowhere near to the extent Christianity is de facto favoured in the USA or Islam is in most of the middle east states (including Hussein's rather secular Iraq - see article 4 of the 1990 constitution).

 

In fact outside the communist countries avowed non-believers would have some difficulty getting elected president, but it's been common in Israel.

 

 

yes and some do this

 

let me estimate that some 20% of the Jews living in Israel are not 100% Jews, from both sides.