GOOD BY MR. BUSH!!!

Originally posted by Gharanai Originally posted by Reginmund Well, what does a shoe mean to a so-called honorable person? I certainly have no clue, other than that it would hurt if the shoe hits, possibly making your clothes dirty.   Well dear Reginmund, I guess Akolouthos has already pointed out what it means to show/throw shoe on someone in our side of the world. But to be honest in my country Afghanistan someone would rather like to die then being in a situation where someone is throwing shoes at you.   It does not just hurt a part of someones body but his/her dignity, honor, self respect and pride. I don't really know how is it considered in the western culture, but it would had be nice for him to shoot himself than saying; "So what? It was just a shoe of size ten!!!"

Well, in the West no ones cares about shoes, and the so called shoe-throwing "hero" is seen as a clown (loosing his honour by loosing his calm and making a fool of himself, if you want to apply different honour codes on people from another culture, as you did with Bush). For all his faults, I liked Bush's response. It was hilarious.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 19-Dec-2008 at 08:05

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Originally posted by Gharanai Originally posted by Reginmund Well, what does a shoe mean to a so-called honorable person? I certainly have no clue, other than that it would hurt if the shoe hits, possibly making your clothes dirty.   Well dear Reginmund, I guess Akolouthos has already pointed out what it means to show/throw shoe on someone in our side of the world. But to be honest in my country Afghanistan someone would rather like to die then being in a situation where someone is throwing shoes at you.   It does not just hurt a part of someones body but his/her dignity, honor, self respect and pride. I don't really know how is it considered in the western culture, but it would had be nice for him to shoot himself than saying; "So what? It was just a shoe of size ten!!!"   Well, in the West no ones cares about shoes, and the so called shoe-throwing "hero" is seen as a clown (loosing his honour by loosing his calm and making a fool of himself, if you want to apply different honour codes on people from another culture, as you did with Bush). For all his faults, I liked Bush's response. It was hilarious.

The 'West', last I checked hasn't had a uniform reaction to this. Yes, most see it as funny but also many see it as just. It is easy to talk about being calm when your entire family and nation isn't brought to its knee's by a nitwit imperialist.

Here's some pics:

Protesters throw all kinds of things to politicians. In this case, it is obvious that this person could not bring rotten eggs, cakes, or a bucketful of slurry (which was thrown to a British politician) to a press meeting with Dubya, because the very tight security would not have allowed it. Therefore he had a limited choice of things to throw to that murdering war criminal. So he threw his shoes, it need not necessarily be a special insult. It definitely is not the ultimate insult in 'Islamic culture' as some idiots in the press write. I personally know many (white, western) protesters who would throw anything to Bush, given the chance. You would need a brave man to do that though, that much is unquestionable.

Now given this, comments like;

Well, in the West no ones cares about shoes, and the so called shoe-throwing "hero" is seen as a clown (loosing his honour by loosing his calm and making a fool of himself, if you want to apply different honour codes on people from another culture, as you did with Bush). For all his faults, I liked Bush's response. It was hilarious.

trying to claim racial superiority over this rightous protest action are extremely sad... Nevermind wrong, as others pointed out, because most in the West agree with the protestor, and don't see him as a clown. If the Western journalists had one tenth of his balls, rather than act as cheerleaders to the Iraq war, maybe we would have avoided the current war.

The guy, and you will like this Bey, is a well known ardent communist (the Iraqi communist party is quite popular in Iraq), the shoe was the only thing he could through plus in the Iraqi culture it is an insult.

Didn't know that. Nice to know if it's indeed the case.

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi trying to claim racial superiority over this rightous protest action are extremely sad... Nevermind wrong, as others pointed out, because most in the West agree with the protestor, and don't see him as a clown. If the Western journalists had one tenth of his balls, rather than act as cheerleaders to the Iraq war, maybe we would have avoided the current war.

Instead of making assumptions about my personal beliefs maybe you should have read what I actually wrote. It's a mystery to me how you could find any attempts of "racial superiority" or somesuch nonsense in the post.

Gharanai asked about how shoe-flinging was seen in the West: "I don't really know how is it considered in the western culture, but it would had be nice for him to shoot himself". This is what I answered to, nothing else. Not how good or bad Bush is, not how righteous or not the shoe-throwing was. Just the act itself.

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And just out of curiosity, what newspapers did you read in 2003? All major papers here were more of line "Bush=Hitler!".


Edited by Styrbiorn - 22-Dec-2008 at 10:28

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi Long post

What was so hard to understand? I specifically said I was only talking about the act of shoes alone, nothing else. If Gharanai meant the whole event as that, then I misunderstood him.

So as long as you crack a joke after it, it is OK to kill thousands. Welcome to Star Wars morality. 'Yeah, Darth Vader destroyed a planet in the first film but he saved his son in the third, so let's forgive him everyone, he is a good guy inside'. You should stop watching so many Hollywood movies.

I found his response funny. Much worse massmurderers, like Stalin, Hitler etc also had their funny moments. Where did I say that makes him or anyone else a 'good guy inside'? Reading behind the lines doesn't include adding your own personal prejudice.
edit:

Originally posted by Parnell The 'West', last I checked hasn't had a uniform reaction to this. Yes, most see it as funny but also many see it as just. It is easy to talk about being calm when your entire family and nation isn't brought to its knee's by a nitwit imperialist.

Missed this post.
Very true indeed. I realise I exagerrated, or was unclear. I wasn't talking about the protest in general, just about the specific way it was done. I got annoyed with the assertion that you're only an honourable person if you follow a certain honour code, which is the reason of my post in the first place. Personally I also see it as an entirely just protest.

Well if I could rewind it correctly, he was the first president in America to not have walked to White House and instead was driven to it due to some egg and tomoto throwers (plz correct me if mistaken) and the same way he leaves so for sure one can say that the way he came, that he went.

the brave protester opposed the foreign invader and made a point which reverberated around the world. It is not important what he threw.

Now, the real question is, did it accomplish anything? Sure, we are talking about it, but the act is not bringing up anything that we didn't know. We are just discussing how one man got to do what so many in the world want.

But in the big scheme of things the shoe throwing doesn't change anything.

...Losing control of our emotions is shameful is it? Thats a tad strange since we have butchered each other in an uncountable multitude of wars since the beginning of time... Seems like losing control of our emotions is the only constant human beings have.