Originally posted by Al Jassas What is the BS in it?   Al-Jassas

The whole Paragraph. Read it again then change Persian with Arabic and reread it.

Hello Suren

Originally posted by Al Jassas Hello Suren   Well let us see shall we:   Persian Poetry: Arabic style, Arabic meter, Arabic themes and even Arabic terminology. Persian Language: Arabic based grammar, Arabic terminology and Arabic analytical style.   I am wondering, who took what from who?   Al-Jassas

Persian Poetry: What do you mean by Arabic style? Arabic meter and... enlighten us.
Persian Language: Arabic based grammar!... Are you kidding me? Do you know Persian at all? The only connection that we have is through Arabic words which we share. You may know that we have equivalent Persian words for almost all of them and it is a matter of time to get rid of them in less than a decade when this Mullahdom in gone. The only reason Arabic words has been used widely in Persian is because of Islam and Clergy influence. Obviously, Arabic was a scientific language in caliphate era which helped to spread it (thank to Persians). Now, Arabic words popularity has gone for decades.

Originally posted by andrew Now the Persians were the strongest power before the Arabs moved in so it's only logical the Arabs picked off where the Persians stopped.

I think most will disagree here. Prior to the Arab invasions Persia had just lost a large-scale war against the Byzantines, so even though both sides were exhausted there can be little doubt who was the strongest power by the 630s. After the conquest of the area the Caliphate did not pick up where the Persians stopped but where the Byzantines stopped, to the extent that they made use of the same administrative infrastructure and even kept Greek as its official language for around half a century. Not until the ascent of the Abbasid dynasty and the shift of capital from Damascus to Baghdad did the Caliphate start to draw heavily on Persian precedents.


You are right in the examples you give but wrong in their selectiveness. Without denying the others their contributions one must credit the Persians with far more than building infrastructure.

A useful reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_scientists_and_scholars

Hello to you all

Arabic has not changed? no, not much in the last 12-1300 years. But it changed dramatically in the two centuries before that.

Are you telling me that Arabs came into civilisation already learned and masterful of everything? Language grows with advance, not before it.

Originally posted by Zagros The Caliphate was Arabic, Arabs get cagey when they are not leading Islam, that is why I say what I do about Islam. You will see that throughout history Arabs stab other Muslims in the back through jealousy, the most recent examples being their governments siding with Israel and the West against their own people in the hopes that Muslim leadership will not pass to non-Arabs. Likewise they did something similar when they betrayed the Ottoman Turk Muslims and sided with the colonialists, paving the way for the Palestinian tragedy and English and American meddling for a century to come.

Hi Zagros,
This generalization doesn't make any sense especially when it comes from an intellectual member like you.
not all Arabs stabbed the Ottomans in the back, read the history of the Arabic tribes in southern Iraq and you will see what I am trying to say here.
the Arabian tribes fought the British so bravely, and the Hawza declared Jihad and  the recruit centers are opened in Baghdad,Najaf,Kerbala and Basrah.
Ayatallah Muhammed Said al-Haboobi was killed while fighting the British with his Mujhedeen near Nasiriyah in 1916 A.D.
for the other Arabs who sided with the British you can't blame them for what they did,The Ottoman treated the Arab unfairly especially in the era of young turks(al-Ithad wa al-Taraqqi) the Arab land declined under the Ottoman rule, it was a dark era lasted 400 years while the developments still active in the Turks land.
the first who stabbed the Ottoman in the back were the Iranian Safavids under Ismael, in the midst of the Ottoman campaign in Europe, they tucked their propagandist in the Ottomans land and showed a high degree of hostility until the big clash at Chalderan and started a long time rivalary was so devastated to the Islamic region.
I wonder about this phrase" throughout history" prove it please like a theory that Arabs are perfidious.
and you answered yourself by saying the Arabic governments are against their people, which I agree with but it is a clear refutation of your argument in other way.
I can say more regarding this issue, but I think it is enough here.
no hard feelings my friend, just a small dissension.
for Suren he is reminding me of Land of Aryan, the same nationalistic attitudes, Land of Aryans knew that his way could not work here so he backed off.




Edited by Ahmed The Fighter - 29-Nov-2008 at 23:44

Ahmad
What do you mean by saying the same nationalistic attitude? LoA was a friend of mine, but it doesn't make me to be agree with all of his opinions. I do hate ultra-nationalist in any shape be it Turkish, Iranian, Arab, Indian, white, black, yellow.... aslo believe in religion being a personal matter (Church and state separation). I do respect religions when they are not force upon people and dont cause violence.

Originally posted by Al Jassas   As for Arabic and Persian, well Persians not only use the same terms Arabs use for verbs, adjectives and other linguistic terms, they employ an approach in analysing language similar to Arabic. For poetry, if you don't know that poetry is written in meter than why the hell I should argue with you? as for the style, well all the famous Persian poets used Arabic based themes and styles (bayt, qasidah etc.) in their poems untill of course the modern poetry came.