Norse tech and the settlement of the Americas

Originally posted by Boreasi "Prehistoric journeys across oceans are mere nonsense" (1947) http://www.kon-tiki.no/Ny/e_aapning.php "Distant journeys across the Pacific are very speculative."(2007) http://www.uq.edu.au/news/?article=13018 "Ancient jouneys across the Atlantic are very unscientific." (2008) http://www.bullfrogfilms.com/catalog/paint.html Who have actually been missing the scientific concepts here?!

Edited by Sander - 16-Nov-2008 at 20:11

It's difficult, actually impossible to say with any certainty when the people of N Europe got christened. Ansgar is usually the one credited with christening Scandinavia, and he lived before the age I mentioned before. I'm sure there was a long period of time where Christianity and Odinism existed in parallel. Some kings were Christians, yet sometimes their sons were not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansgar

 

Some sources I've read suggests that it was the nobility that first became Christians, while the old beliefs lingered on longer among the commoners.

Yeap. Are we going to talk about Christianity or the technology that allowed Norse to reach the Americas?

Unfortunately they didn't like writing, it seems. Almost all written evidence comes from others. The Icelandic Eddas and Sagas were written after the end of the Viking age. The writing on the runestones isn't of much help either, it usually is about some local person going on a raid or something like that. Some of the runestones seems to be written by illiterate people who just knew the runes and a few words. They often have no real meaning.

Originally posted by Jams Unfortunately they didn't like writing, it seems. Almost all written evidence comes from others. The Icelandic Eddas and Sagas were written after the end of the Viking age. The writing on the runestones isn't of much help either, it usually is about some local person going on a raid or something like that. Some of the runestones seems to be written by illiterate people who just knew the runes and a few words. They often have no real meaning.

Edited by pinguin - 17-Nov-2008 at 00:15

When the Scandinavians adopted Christianity has been much debated and still is. There is no simple consensus, except that it was a most gradual process, even if a few dates and key events can be mentioned. It's a very broad subject, so I'll just give a summary. It's good to be aware of it when discussing anything about Viking Age Scandinavia.

The Danes were probably the first to adopt it, which can be said to have been done officially in the 960s. On the Jelling stone, raised around 965, Harald Bluetooth claimed to have Christened the Danes.

Christianity got hold in Norway to a large extent because of Olaf Tryggvason, known to have built the first church in Norway in the year 995 - just one year after he had himself converted. Olaf the Holy continued the Christening of Norway, in a most ruthless of ways. Those who did not obey and converted, he punished with mutilation and death. In remote areas the process was slow.

The Icelanders adopted Christianty by decision at the Thing in the year 1000.

In Jamtland, which at the time was an indepedent country ruled by assembly alone in the same manner as Iceland, Christianity was according to the Frösö stone adoped in the 1050s, probably by decision at the thing.

The people of Gotland was a seafaring and trading folk, and they brought priests home early on. Christian motives started appearing on stones in the 8th century already. However, also here it was a gradual process.

Sweden is the most troublesome area. Ansgar is often mentioned, but fact is he didn't do much more except getting himself killed. It's not even known if he ever entered Sweden or just the island of Gotland. Christian crosses started appearing on runestone only in the 11th century, and in the mid 1060s Adam of Bremen complains about the heathen Swedes and he had little good to say. The first Christian king who stayed Christian was Olof Skötkonung, baptized around the year 1008. Following him was a number of Christian and heathen kings - the last heathen was Sven the Sacrificer, who died in 1087. The people itself took a long time to adopt the new religion. Old rites and holidays were fused with Christian ones, but there is indications that still in the 14th century old heathen rituals were conducted.

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Though I know it's somewhat off topic, I want to clear up a few things. I hope pinguin doesn't mind :)
 
Beowulf was written down in the 9-11th centuries, but the lives of the persons the story is about and the story itself took place around the 6th century BC. For anyone who thinks I'm not trustworthy, this is the easiest thing in the world to check up.

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I'll adress some other things later, have no time now though.




Edited by Styrbiorn - 17-Nov-2008 at 17:07

Originally posted by pinguin Originally posted by Sander Originally posted by pinguin Just show evidence that Phoenician, Greek, Roman, Arab or Indian ships were faster, safer and better build than the norse longship. It is an easy challenge, isn't? Just show evidence you can read not so difficult lines, if you respond to my posting (meant for somebody else)  Hard challenge ?    Precisely, because I can read between the lines it is why I am asking you for evidence

Originally posted by pinguin Just show evidence that Phoenician, Greek, Roman, Arab or Indian ships were faster, safer and better build than the norse longship. It is an easy challenge, isn't?

Originally posted by Count Belisarius No Beowulf is set around nine-ten hundred A.D     About heavner someone told me they were doing a whole new set of tests on it

Beowulf is set between the fifth and seventh centuries.1 The Anglo-Saxons at this point were nominally Christian at best. The Christian elements as have been pointed out earlier are later additions to the text. Whether they were put in before it was committed to writing or after is a different story.

In regards to the Heavener runestone, it is a fake just like the Kensington Runestone.


1.Wiki Beowulf Entry. Spark Notes: Beowulf: Context.

Edited by King John - 17-Nov-2008 at 23:31

Originally posted by andrew Militarily they weren't technologically advanced but were great fighters nonetheless.