Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Deleted
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Reginmund View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 08-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Deleted
    Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 12:09
Originally posted by zukline

By arctict do you mean like similar to europe?


I don't know for sure as I haven't visited northeast Asia, but I've seen many pictures of Hokkaido in winter and it looks very similar to my own country in winter.

Hokkaido:

http://www.stapledesign.com/jeffstaple/uploaded_images/hokkaido-721280.jpg

Norway, picture taken where I live:

http://www.nittedalsporten.no/bildegallerier/bilder/November2003%20030.jpg




Edited by Reginmund - 15-Nov-2008 at 12:14
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 15:42
Alaska and Siberia are not surrounded by sea?  Confused  This is simply incorrect.
How about Aleutian islanders? Or Chukotkans or Kamchatkans? Inuits life is actually traditionally complitely depends on sea.
 
And Japanese and Korean climate is classified the same the Scandinavian one.
 
And also people in Alps are in fact "darker" than Northern Europeans.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 15:56
Originally posted by zukline

 
Again it is climate. Have you seen third or fourth generation British Indians, Pakistanis and Arabs they are turning fair skinned very fast. In contrast Pure Spanish Cubans are increasingly obtaining different look than Spaniards of Spain.
 
People can't become fair skinned so fast. Indians in England keep their natural skin colour which doesn't change unless they mix with Whites.
 
Spaniards in Latin America are generally darker only because of the mixture with locals. But there are people in Latin America which are complitely "white." And it is due to the lack of intermixing with other groups.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Tyranos View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 246 		  Quote Tyranos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2008 at 18:59
For one, it seems some one plucked information from the Nordicist Karl Earlson's work of fiction. Genghis Khan's ancestry couldve well had some Iranic or Turkic lineage,sure.  But if your looking for high degree's of Blondism, its not happening. But there is indigenous Europoid peoples present in that area for a long time.

Anyhow, these people from China claim descent from Romans:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1541421/Roman-descendants-found-in-China.html


Edited by Tyranos - 15-Nov-2008 at 19:05
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 07:41
Originally posted by Tyranos

For one, it seems some one plucked information from the Nordicist Karl Earlson's work of fiction. Genghis Khan's ancestry couldve well had some Iranic or Turkic lineage,sure.  But if your looking for high degree's of Blondism, its not happening. But there is indigenous Europoid peoples present in that area for a long time.

Anyhow, these people from China claim descent from Romans:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1541421/Roman-descendants-found-in-China.html
 
Maybe nordicist bias can be true, but we cannot prove or negate that Karl Earlson, because we do not have His "photo". But for sure we know that Rashid-Ad-Din and few arab historians claim that he had yellow hair greenish-blue eyes. And what about Kazakh folk thinking that when child is born with fair hair and green eyes they consider and believe him to be from Tore or Genghisid line.
 
Extremely unlikely, but I think Mongols of that time were experts in Natural methods and manipulators as well as masters of disguise, so they might have been able to change their appearance as they liked it.  
 
How they can "claim" Roman ancestry when they cannot even read? (Sorry I am not teasing you, but these people are illiterate.)
 
Also how Korean and Japanese climate is the same. Give me a break! I am well travelled man and I know that British Indians and Pakistanis very rarely mix with English or white, but third and second generation Indians and Pakistanis look completely different believe me.
 
In cuba they do not mix with native indians, because there is none of them. Only race spaniards can mix there is black cubans. Again this occurs rarely, but spaniards of cuba are quite different than spanish spaniards.  


Edited by zukline - 16-Nov-2008 at 07:50
Back to Top
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 10:50
In cuba they do not mix with native indians, because there is none of them. Only race spaniards can mix there is black cubans. Again this occurs rarely, but spaniards of cuba are quite different than spanish spaniards.  
 
This statement is not true. Most Latin Americans have some degree of mixture with Indians and Africans, only that socially it is undesirable to admit to it.
It is very common to hear Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Argentinians, or Venezuelans boast that they are of pure Spanish descent, when they're standing there with an afro.
 
For example, Puerto Rico, long considered to have a population of 80% of unmixed Spanish descent and 20% of Blacks and Mulattos; are now being revealed by DNA study to be a predominant "mestizo" nation with 80% of the population having some degree of native Indian ancestry.
The same goes with Argentina, who often take pride over their "whiteness". DNA study has also revealed that more than 50% of the Argentine population have native american ancestry. All you have to do is look at the face of Diego Maradonna!
 
Going back to the original thread, it has been shown that the Xiongnu, who occupied Mongolia 2000 years ago, have 10% European ancestry inherited by prehistoric mixing. Knowing this, it wouldn't be surprising if Mongols inherited some Europoid ancestry as well.
 
Regarding the Chinese population claiming descent from the Romans, historians say that this theory is highly unlikely. The only source relating them to Romans was an account that they fought in "fish-scale" formation, similar to the testudo. However, many nations adopted this battle formation.
Most likely, they are descended from ancient Central Asian peoples, such as the Di, Jie, or even certain banches of the Xiongnu and Xianpei.
 
 
Back to Top
Tyranos View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 246 		  Quote Tyranos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 13:28
Zukline, are you saying thats where you  got it from Earlson?HAHA!

Anyway, the Redhair mutation however is completely different from from Blondism(Yellow hair). But yeah, these things do occur in Europoid influenced peoples but also in some degree on their own,  in non-Europoids.

As for   Rashid al-Din, he was born in 1247, Khan died in 1227. So its 2nd or 3rd  hand information besides.

Kyrgyz are said to have inspired the stories of  Temujin's   supposed physical characteristics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz






Edited by Tyranos - 16-Nov-2008 at 13:34
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2008 at 17:05
Originally posted by zukline

 
Also how Korean and Japanese climate is the same. Give me a break! I am well travelled man and I know that British Indians and Pakistanis very rarely mix with English or white, but third and second generation Indians and Pakistanis look completely different believe me.
 
Please check any text book on geography or encyclopedia; climate of North Japan and North Korea is classified as "humid continental" climate, which is also the climate of Southern Scandinavia.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 05:06
What a surprise, Eurasians look like Europeans, mixed with Asians! Shocked My God what will we think of next, soon we'll be saying Sudanese look like Africans mixed with Arabs!
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 05:29
I also want to add that Mongols were mixing with Europoids in the times after Genghis khan as well. It's known that Alans played a very important role for Mongolian Yuan dynasty in China and even there is a whole Mongolian clan that originates from Alans.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Jams View Drop Down
Consul
Consul

Suspended

Joined: 06-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 365 		  Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 17:16
I find it strange that some people would claim that they are related to Roman and Greek people because they have blue or green eyes. The whole idea seem pretty ridiculous to me, for obvious reasons.
 
 


Edited by Jams - 17-Nov-2008 at 17:17
Back to Top
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 20:15
Originally posted by Jams

I find it strange that some people would claim that they are related to Roman and Greek people because they have blue or green eyes. The whole idea seem pretty ridiculous to me, for obvious reasons.
 
 
 
There is an enduring myth that ancient Greeks and Italians were blond-haired and blue-eyed Nordics. It was a false theory propagated during the Nazi era but today many people still believe in it, including modern Greeks and Italians (I know people like that).
 
All they have to do is to look at all the people in the Etruscan, Roman, and Greek frescoes to find out that ancient Greeks and Italians were as Mediterranean-looking as their descendants today; with blond hair and blue eyes being a minority.
 
 
Back to Top
Jams View Drop Down
Consul
Consul

Suspended

Joined: 06-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 365 		  Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2008 at 20:36
Northern Arctic peoples are also sometimes blond and blue eyed, at least the western ones. Maybe there just was an European blond type in Central/North Eurasia in the past, that got semi-assimilated?
Back to Top
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2008 at 16:43
To think about it, genetic mutation giving rise to new genotypes or phenotypes could occur over the space of only a few centuries, but not in 2 generations.
 
Citing one example: it was long believed that the "Jewish" ethnicity is defined purely by religion and not by ancestry; and that Ashkenazi Jews shared more ancestry with German and Slavic gentiles, while Middle Eastern Jews shared more ancestry with Arabs etc; for that fact that Central European Jews tend to look like Central Europeans, and Middle Eastern Jews tend to look like Middle Easterners.
Recently DNA testing has revealed that most Ashkenazi Jews, despite being faired-skinned; are of predominantly Middle-Eastern extraction whose borebears had migrated out of Israel.
It must be adaptation to the colder climates with less sun that made them paler and lose the classic "Semetic" look.
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 05:05
It is absolutely impossible for european people to reach inner asia on those days.
Back to Top
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 11:08
Originally posted by zukline

It is absolutely impossible for european people to reach inner asia on those days.
 
No, it was not "impossible". What was the Silk Road for?
Alexander the Great's army also reached as far as Afghanistan at 300 B.C.
 
Blond hair and blue eyes also don't have to come from specifically "Europeans" from Europe. Many of the ancient Iranian peoples of Central Asia and Western Mongolia also had fair hair and eyes, as reflected in many Tajiks and Afghans today. There are probably as many blond individuals in Afghanistan as in Spain.
 
DNA analysis of the Xiongnu, the so-called "Asiatic Huns" who had lived in Mongolia from the 5th century B.C., also revealed that 10% of their halogroups are of European, or "Western Eurasian" extraction; probably inherited from mixtures with the Iranic peoples.
 
As to the colour of Ghengis Khan. We really cannot answer this question, but from contemporary portraits he surely had a typical "Mongol" look, as did his descendants.
 
I sometimes wonder how much have "western Eurasian" heratige contributed to the Mongolian gene pool today.
Would it be similar to the Xiongnu at around 10%, or probably more or less?
 
 
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 16:43
Originally posted by zukline

It is absolutely impossible for european people to reach inner asia on those days.
 
Which days do you mean?
 
Being blond, with fair skin and light eyes doesn't necessarily mean to be European.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 16:45
Originally posted by calvo

 
As to the colour of Ghengis Khan. We really cannot answer this question, but from contemporary portraits he surely had a typical "Mongol" look, as did his descendants.
 
Well, from the discription of Genghis Khan from chronicles we know that he was blond with light eyes.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 18:30
i thought he was described as even red-haired or was that Temür?


Originally posted by calvo

As to the colour of Ghengis Khan. We really cannot answer this question, but from contemporary portraits he surely had a typical "Mongol" look, as did his descendants.


there are no contemporary portraits of Chinggis, all have been comissioned well after his death.
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2008 at 18:46
Originally posted by Temujin

i thought he was described as even red-haired or was that Temür?
 
Yes. That's true I also read red-haired description.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.