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Where is Afghanistan Headed?

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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Where is Afghanistan Headed?
    Posted: 31-Oct-2008 at 18:11
Originally posted by Gharanai

Originally posted by Afghanan

 
Its kind of hard to see Afghanistan under a strong government, but I believe if enough stagnation occurs in the civil administration and government, the people will rise up against it.  I think America is looking for a strong leader, like a dictator to rule the country with an Iron First, like the Iron Emir - Abdur Rahman Khan who forged Afghanistan in the late 19th century.
  
 
I totaly agree with your words of an Iron Fist leader, I mean countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan could not be controlled by Democracy but only and only by dictatorship.
What I am looking forward to is the re-election of Mr. Karzai allied with Mullah Omer, while Karzai's position would be more of a symbolic, it would be the Iron Fist of Mullah Omer (or any alternative Taleb) which would bring that missing thing back to the administration.
 
Now the main problem with this scenario is the Warlords and Northern Alliance, who could fell such and alliance a great treate to their existance.
 
What I see they will be kept in Kabul, in kind of house arrest, the same situation in what Dustom right now is living in Kabul, who is feared that if he gets to North he could once again forge his malitia and form an upraising in the North.
 
So the only way to deal with these concerns is either keeping them in Kabul (Warlords) or reshuffling them like a warlord of North sent to South and South to North and East to West and vice versa.
 
After the Iron Amir Abdul Rahman Khan the only time that the central Administration had such a grip over its people and areas, it was the Taleban government, so when you are giving the looters, burgulars and warlords of 1990-95 a try, why not Taleban who had a better grip then of those.
 
 
I hope that Karzai does not come back at all.  His fingers are too sticky witih the Warlords who he fears , and the Taleban who will not settle for something less than a religous theocracy covertly and at times openly supportive of Al Qaeda.  If things continue to go down the road of lawlessness, Afghanistan will probably rise in open revolt again leaving not many options in terms of power.
 
Lets see who really holds power in Afghanistan right now:
 
Drug Barons
Warlords
The Taliban
NATO/Karzai government
 
What are the outcomes if any of them continue to rule?
 
Drug Barons - Record Drug profits - Taliban collaberators
Warlords - Lawlessness, double-dealing, and Foreign meddling
Taliban - Religious theocracy, UN Sanctions, and Foreign Meddling
NATO/Karzai - Exploitative oil/natural gas pipelines, a weak government, continuous rebellion
 
Maybe I am being very cynical here about the situation but this is where I believe the road leads for all of those in power right now.  For the past 7 years I've put my hope on this fledgling democracy only to see it spiral out of control into something completely ridiculous and laughable.  Foreign investors are leaving, whatever middle class exists is being squeezed out by Bandits and highway robbers, the rich are getting very rich, and the poor are becoming impoverished. 
 
Even if NATO double deals with the Taliban and lets them run for election in the government, NATO will still be calling the shots there for decades and Afghanistan will not have any independence and can look forward to NATO military bases to keep China, Russia, and Iran in check.  I can see more of the same corruption, and I can see stagnation in civil administration and I think the next generation of Afghans will want major change.  I hope this is not the case and NATO can turn the tide on the Taliban, drug barons, and bandits, but so long as the root of government is corrupt, funding and troop support to Afghanistan remains minimal, I can't see anything positive in Afghanistan's future.
 
 
 
 
 
 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2008 at 14:32
I am moving this thread to the Modern History main forum.  However, edgewaters makes a point about narcotics and its role in international politics, and it does have validity. 
 
Drug trafficking is a security issue everywhere, and political entities sometimes use it for various reasons.  Since this can be a factor in geopolitics, I suggest we continue on with this part of the discussion in another thread in the Geo subforum.
 
However, IMO internal Afghan politics and affairs do not much affect geopolitics, so continue here in Modern History.
 
Thanks.
 
  


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 31-Oct-2008 at 14:35
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2008 at 14:11
Ideological regimes have never fared well in Afghanistan, and it is hubris to think that a neoliberal republic is going to fare any differently.

IMHO, Afghans need to look to when their country was doing relatively well, in other words the era just prior to the 1969 elections, and learn lessons from that time. The heroine trade, though, is a major problem for Afghan autonomy: the superpowers (despite self-serving antidrug rhetoric) value control of addictive narcotics almost as much as oil. They can subjugate dissidents, destroy economies and collapse intransigent societies with it.
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2008 at 13:46
Originally posted by Afghanan

 
Its kind of hard to see Afghanistan under a strong government, but I believe if enough stagnation occurs in the civil administration and government, the people will rise up against it.  I think America is looking for a strong leader, like a dictator to rule the country with an Iron First, like the Iron Emir - Abdur Rahman Khan who forged Afghanistan in the late 19th century.
  
 
I totaly agree with your words of an Iron Fist leader, I mean countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan could not be controlled by Democracy but only and only by dictatorship.
What I am looking forward to is the re-election of Mr. Karzai allied with Mullah Omer, while Karzai's position would be more of a symbolic, it would be the Iron Fist of Mullah Omer (or any alternative Taleb) which would bring that missing thing back to the administration.
 
Now the main problem with this scenario is the Warlords and Northern Alliance, who could fell such and alliance a great treate to their existance.
 
What I see they will be kept in Kabul, in kind of house arrest, the same situation in what Dustom right now is living in Kabul, who is feared that if he gets to North he could once again forge his malitia and form an upraising in the North.
 
So the only way to deal with these concerns is either keeping them in Kabul (Warlords) or reshuffling them like a warlord of North sent to South and South to North and East to West and vice versa.
 
After the Iron Amir Abdul Rahman Khan the only time that the central Administration had such a grip over its people and areas, it was the Taleban government, so when you are giving the looters, burgulars and warlords of 1990-95 a try, why not Taleban who had a better grip then of those.
 


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2008 at 07:50
A strongman will only complicate things. Plus throw the already falttering balance of power on more unstable ground. What is needed is to turn the clock back to '01 and get rid of heavy reliance on war lords. Ironically the only way out of the mess is the strong democratic government that was never created. Favoritism has brought instability, aside without allied troops (US & co) the strong man would fail miserably, too.
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2008 at 06:27
Well Karzai was never the US's first choice.  He was elected after their original strong man Abdul Haq was executed by the Taliban while trying to raise tribes against them. 
 
 
Karzai was their second choice and probably Ghani and Khalilzad were their 3rd and 4th.  Haq's other brother was killed by a rival warlord.  Ghani left after realizing that the deals with warlords was going to ruin the administration and wanted to get as far away from that as possible.  Khalilzad has moved on to bigger things in Iraq, and now there aren't many choices available.
 
Its kind of hard to see Afghanistan under a strong government, but I believe if enough stagnation occurs in the civil administration and government, the people will rise up against it.  I think America is looking for a strong leader, like a dictator to rule the country with an Iron First, like the Iron Emir - Abdur Rahman Khan who forged Afghanistan in the late 19th century.
 
 
 
 
 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2008 at 05:08
The problem with Karzai is that he has been a Cheney puppet from the get go. And the only reason he is president is due to that connection.

Now as far as Afghanisan it is hard to say, it depends to a degree on the election. McCain's "100 years in Iraq" can't mean good for Afghanistan if the country and the coalition mean to fight the Taliban any longer.

It seems that we are back to square one in a lot of ways nevertheless in Afghanistan, taking off the Mullah from the blacklist is one interesting feature of this situation. Talking to the Taliban as an option would not have been considered even six months ago, when the situation was not much better. Now with dwindling sucess talking to the Taliban seems a reasonable option by the coalition. Which effectively overturns the 2001 situation. With the Taliban becoming the Northern Alliance in matters of having control of outskirts, and the main coalition with the help of the US and allies in control of "most" of the country. That most can be argued as well. Unfortunately that is not a good option for Afghanistan. Without effective unity and quelling of any localized forms of government, and effective wresting of control by local warlords the sitaution may deterriorate even further.
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2008 at 04:55
Where is Afghanistan Headed?
 
Where do you think Afghainstan is headed? After 7 years after the Taliban were removed from power, Afghanistan has gotten worse than it started out. Karzai's administration has lost credibility at home and abroad. Afghanistan's biggest export is Heroine, corruption is rampant in all aspects of civil administration, The Taliban still pose a great threat to most of the country, and there is even talks that they are collaberating with warlords supposedly loyal to Karzai's administration.

I think everybody is aware that this experiment in Democracy will take time to bear fruit but if the root of this democracy is corrupt, what chance does the fruit have?

What kind of Afghanistan do we know when millionaire mansions exist next to squalid tents of evicted poor people?


Internally displaced Refugees in Tents while Warlord Mansions are seen in the background.

Lately I have become rather disallusioned with the situation there. Instead of seeing some progress we are going backwards instead of forward. Even in one of the Presidential debates, they even questioned if a Dictatorship would work in Afghanistan and nobody disagreed.

Thats been one of my greatest fears for Afghanistan, yet I know it's inevitable. So long as Karzai and regimes similar to his are in power, we have only more of the same to look forward to. When the pipeline is built, expect the Taliban and government forces to protect it. Afghanistan will just be secured for the pipeline, the money will fuel the corrupt government, and most of the people will remain destitute with infrastructure being built at a slow pace. I think in the next 15-20 years the government will face a revolution and Afghanistan will be ripe for another bloodletting.

What are your thoughts to where Afghanistan is headed?


Edited by Afghanan - 31-Oct-2008 at 04:56
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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