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Asawar Hazaraspa
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Topic: The Anniversary of Battle of Qadesiya Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 15:22 |
Today is one of the presumed days along 16th November, in which 1371 years ago took place the battle of Qadesiya, despite being disastrous, the study of history today shows that the many different Arab stories surrounding this events shows somehow that Iranians fought well. Let's we Iranians commemorate the bravery of the defenders of Iran against invading Arabs. According to al-Dinouri many of the Iranian prisoners of war were being slain and beheaded until midnight.
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Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 15:26 |
And you can meet single Arabs while you are at it.
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Asawar Hazaraspa
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Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 15:30 |
I don't know about you, but you can go to hungary and visit the memorial to the battle of Mohacs!
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Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 16:28 |
And why would I want to do that? Incidentally, which Mohacs?
**sees our Persian friend has missed the point completely**
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azimuth
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Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 20:12 |
The end of the last Zoroastrian Empire is similar to the end of the First zoroastrian Empire . ironic
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 22:42 |
...Can someone give me some info on this? I've never heard of this battle, and it sounds quite decisive. I must knoww pleeasssee!
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Posted: 27-Sep-2008 at 23:48 |
It was one of the battles. There were several; this one confirmed the conquest of all of Persia up till the Zagros. 10 years later the Arabs would cross the Zagros and at Nihwand it was curtains for Persia. The battle was not thought of as decisive until at least the rise of Arab Nationalism.
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 01:16 |
...any dates or anything you can give me, dynasties etc?
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Asawar Hazaraspa
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Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 10:04 |
"**sees our Persian friend has missed the point completely" i.e. worldwide people use to commemorate such events. Plus I'm Iranian, Persians are just a group of Iranian people (the term "Persian as to refer to whole Iranians of iranian stock" is an invention has rose to prominence by mostly pan-Turkist and pan-Arabist guys dating back to the early days of Islamic historiography in order to confine the Iranian people just to Persians, thus making easy wage their cultural wars on them) About the quality of the battle of Qadesiya, easy way is a search on internet. But as for a professional study you may look up some works which are believed to be the primary sources (Unfortunately there are major defects; the only actual primary sources available today are Islamic arabic sources, which considering to have written in th era of Arab empire, and the fact that they openly are sided with Arab conquest, are not fully trusted) al-Tabari, al-Dinouri, al-Baladhuri, Yaqut and Hamazah they are some actual starts for primary sources.
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 17:22 |
...god is this so hard? Who fought who at this battle? Date? Since you're all speaking about it I assume you know those facts and can tell them to me?
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Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 17:38 |
Okay, you are Iranian. Again, you missed the point.
Aster;
here
overview. Al Qadisiya is the focal point of anguish for the Persians and gloating for the Arabs, in contempory times.
The Sassainds, were outgeneraled by the Arabs. The average grunt probably fought well and bravely, but while Arab leadership at all levels was supereb, the Sassanid leadership was pretty bankrupt.
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Sublime Porte
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Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 00:55 |
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator
...Can someone give me some info on this? I've never heard of this battle, and it sounds quite decisive. I must knoww pleeasssee! |
In 637 AD, Muslim Arab armies attacked Iran. Arabs, under the rule of Khalife Omar (634-644) conquered the land after Qadesiya and the Sassanid Empire (the last Zoroaster dynasty) collapsed. However Persian nationalism would rise again; not by the power of sword but by the power of the pen in the hand of Ferdowsi. Arabs? They approached to conquer Turkish villages 70 years later and there live more than a billion Muslims on earth today.
An explanation for occidentals: This event is similar with Rome's conquering Greece. Arab-Sassanid combination begeted the Islam-Orient civilisation in Abbasid era; like the Greko-Latin synthesis' composing the bases of Western civilisation.
Edited by Sublime Porte - 29-Sep-2008 at 00:57
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Asawar Hazaraspa
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Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 01:03 |
"Okay, you are Iranian. Again, you missed the point." Good job ;) Things should be clear, no? "overview. Al Qadisiya is the focal point of anguish for the Persians and gloating for the Arabs, in contempory times. The Sassainds, were outgeneraled by the Arabs. The average grunt probably fought well and bravely, but while Arab leadership at all levels was supereb, the Sassanid leadership was pretty bankrupt." Hey I guess here we are talking about serious history, aren't we?! You are getting it all wrong. Battle of Qadesiya hasn't been an important matter in post-conquest Iran. In fact majority of the Iranians just know a little about it or nothing at all. This is interesting when you compare it with awareness of the Arabs. That means if you ask a random Arab about it you may get more detailed infos than asking an Iranian. So this means actually that this isn't a point of "anguish" (Sparten) for them rather than it seems to be a gloating point for Arabs so that they commemorate their victory even today in their culture. However I have come to see that Pakistanis are also concerned about it. BUt yet I like yourself also suggest reading that Wikipedia article you put in your post.
Edited by Asawar Hazaraspa - 29-Sep-2008 at 01:06
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Asawar Hazaraspa
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Posted: 01-Oct-2008 at 13:41 |
"The end of the last Zoroastrian Empire is similar to the end of the First zoroastrian Empire" Hwhat?!...hello!..hello...no clues from where you cite this scientific phrase. good luck any ways
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azimuth
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Posted: 01-Oct-2008 at 17:58 |
Originally posted by Asawar Hazaraspa
"The end of the last Zoroastrian Empire is similar to the end of the First zoroastrian Empire"
Hwhat?!...hello!..hello...no clues from where you cite this scientific phrase. good luck any ways |
calm down ""Mr.iranian nationalist 2008"
what was wrong with my post above?
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evilbu
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Posted: 01-Oct-2008 at 19:59 |
I know very little about this subject, but as far as I know, this battle started the subjugation of Persians by Arabs, and the rise of islam in what we know today as Iran. Is it perceived as a disaster in Iran today by Iranians or at least Persians? (does it matter that the actual site of the battle is not in Iran but Iraq?) I once read that the Persians were in fact pretty good at defending their own ways and culture against arabization, which is why they still speak Persian (or is that mainly because they didn't speak anything semitic either before the arab conquests?), and that the spread of islam actually in a sense encouraged Persians culture and language, because with the advent of islam in eastern places like Tadjikistan, Eastern Iranian languages were replaced by something more similar to standard or western Persian. Perhaps the position of the Persians can be compared to the Greeks within the Roman Empire? Or is that off the wall?
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Asawar Hazaraspa
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Posted: 02-Oct-2008 at 11:08 |
Originally posted by azimuth
Originally posted by Asawar Hazaraspa
"The end of the last Zoroastrian Empire is similar to the end of the First zoroastrian Empire"
Hwhat?!...hello!..hello...no clues from where you cite this scientific phrase. good luck any ways |
calm down ""Mr.iranian nationalist 2008"
what was wrong with my post above?
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Hey buddy that sentence was humorous not transfering any "Asabiyah" like Arabs use to say, what made you think like that?. By the way I think using hasty words like Mr.Iranian nationalist 2008 may harm the reputation of a moderator. Zaroastrian Empire?! Iranians unlike Arabs never insisted on such issues even at the peak of Zaroastrianism's power in Iran at the late Sassanian period. Thus such a term never appeared in different historical accounts refereing to Iranian kingdoms and they were always called by the anmes of the ruling dynasties or simply Iran or Persia. So it's natural that this name seem like word-out-of-story for a reader. But yeah I have heard that Arabs tend to call Iranians even today as "Al-Majus" which is based upon the religious point of view.
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Posted: 02-Oct-2008 at 20:50 |
Calm down all of you. No need to cast aspirations on others opinions, either expressly or impliedly. Or this thread shall go the way of both the Sassanids and the Arab empires.
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azimuth
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Posted: 03-Oct-2008 at 11:19 |
Originally posted by Asawar Hazaraspa
Hey buddy that sentence was humorous not transfering any "Asabiyah" like Arabs use to say, what made you think like that?. By the way I think using hasty words like Mr.Iranian nationalist 2008 may harm the reputation of a moderator.
Zaroastrian Empire?! Iranians unlike Arabs never insisted on such issues even at the peak of Zaroastrianism's power in Iran at the late Sassanian period. Thus such a term never appeared in different historical accounts refereing to Iranian kingdoms and they were always called by the anmes of the ruling dynasties or simply Iran or Persia. So it's natural that this name seem like word-out-of-story for a reader. But yeah I have heard that Arabs tend to call Iranians even today as "Al-Majus" which is based upon the religious point of view. |
Word out of story?!!
its a describtion of those empires, something significant about them, it may not be common in historical records but that doesn't mean its wrong.
like calling the Byzantinum empir as christian empir and calling Abbasides and Ummayads as Arab Empires.
there is no need for "Scientific phrases".
and dont worry about my reputation, sadely iam hated enough by many.
Edited by azimuth - 03-Oct-2008 at 11:22
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Asawar Hazaraspa
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Posted: 04-Oct-2008 at 00:16 |
Could you tell us more about this your brand new perception of the Iranian kingdoms "First zaroastrian empire and the second Zaroastrian empire" I think since here's a history forum people may be eager to know your explanations. "there is no need for "Scientific phrases"" I already know you would say so.
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