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My articles on Alans

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Ardashir View Drop Down
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  Quote Ardashir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: My articles on Alans
    Posted: 10-Sep-2008 at 23:35
I've decided to write a series of articles on Alans and their modern descendants (Ossets). Here's the 1st part :
 
 
Please provide me with your opinions and suggestions and also provide me with further sources if you know one.
 
Regards
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Suren View Drop Down
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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 00:17
Not bad. yek meghdar moshkele virayeshi dare. dar zemn citation yadet nare.
Good luckThumbs%20Up


Edited by Suren - 11-Sep-2008 at 01:35
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  Quote Ardashir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 00:36
thnx. my sources will be provided in the last article.
 
regards
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 08:38

Great article, but "Alan" doesn't relate to Iran, as I said in this thread: http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=22988&PN=1 it probably means "Country of the Eagle", you know the famous castle of Ala-mut (Eagle`s nest)? I think "Alua" is the only Persian word for "Eagle" (Arabic Uqab). Alans themsleves called their country "Aluank", it is interesting to read "The History of Aluank" by Medieval Alani historian Moses of Kalankatuyk, he believes the word Alua was also the nickname of the first king of Alans.

Of course I believe the original name of this country was "Alaupan" [alau+pa+an] (Country of the Quadruped Eagle or Griffin), there was no "l" sound in the Old Persian language, so in this language it could be changed to "Arpan" (the most famous river in this region is "Arpa River" which has been mentioned in the ancient Greek sources too), then Parthian "Ardhan" and Middle Persian (Pahlavi) "Arran".

In Greek the name has been changed to "Albania", it is interesting that people of the modern country of Albania in Europe call their country "Shqiperia" which just means “Country of the Eagle”.

The Avestan name of this country is "Saini" or "Saena", Middle Persian "Senmurv" and Modern Persian "Simurgh", which is also a mythical bird

http://www.avesta.org/ka/yt13sbe.htm :

We worship the Fravashis of the holy men in the Aryan countries; -> Iranian
We worship the Fravashis of the holy women in the Aryan countries.
We worship the Fravashis of the holy men in the Turanian countries;
We worship the Fravashis of the holy women in the Turanian countries.
We worship the Fravashis of the holy men in the Sairimyan countries; -> Sarmatians
We worship the Fravashis of the holy women in the Sairimyan countries. 
We worship the Fravashis of the holy men in the Saini countries;  -> Alans
We worship the Fravashis of the holy women in the Saini countries.
We worship the Fravashis of the holy men in the Dahi countries;
We worship the Fravashis of the holy women in the Dahi countries.
We worship the Fravashis of the holy men in all countries;
We worship the Fravashis of the holy women in all countries. 

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  Quote Ardashir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 09:17
great notes, dear cyrus Clap
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Sarmat View Drop Down
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 20:31
Moved to "Steppe Nomads & Central Asia."
 
BTW
 
Dear Ardashir, could you please provide an abstract for your article in English since we are an English speaking forum.  Smile
 
Thanks.


Edited by Sarmat12 - 11-Sep-2008 at 20:32
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  Quote Ardashir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 21:11
Originally posted by Sarmat12

Moved to "Steppe Nomads & Central Asia."
 
BTW
 
Dear Ardashir, could you please provide an abstract for your article in English since we are an English speaking forum.  Smile
 
Thanks.
 
No, it's not possible, because my English is not good enough. That's why I posted it in that thread to get feedback from Iranian members.
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 21:47
By the abstract I didn't mean the translation of the whole article into English. Just a short paragraph, maximum 10 sentences describing what article is about. Otherwise, all the non-Farsi speaking members would be deprived of the opportunity to participate in the discussion. Smile
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 22:03
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

In Greek the name has been changed to "Albania", it is interesting that people of the modern country of Albania in Europe call their country "Shqiperia" which just means “Country of the Eagle”.
 I am sure you know that Alb- means white, Albania, Albion, Alpi montes.....
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2008 at 22:21

Well, even if you are Iranian, then that's Arabic and not Farsi, or am I wrong?

So... I'd really like a translation of that into either English (preferrable), or any other language the most of us speak. :D

Thanks,

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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 00:18
The article is in Persian (we use Arabic Script)
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  Quote Ardashir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 11:48
Originally posted by Sarmat12

By the abstract I didn't mean the translation of the whole article into English. Just a short paragraph, maximum 10 sentences describing what article is about. Otherwise, all the non-Farsi speaking members would be deprived of the opportunity to participate in the discussion. Smile
 
Dear Sarmat,
 
Even though I can easily read and translate almost any English text (exept for philosophical ones) into Persian, I have extreme dificulties in writing in English. Also I would like to point out that my articles are JUST a collection of some English and Persian (both online and books) articles and documents on Alans. But since you, and perhaps a few others, may be intersted in getting an abstract, I respect it and will provide that after I'm done writting the rest of the series. ( just one part to write by now )
 
Thanks to your interest, BTW Wink
 
Regards
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  Quote Ardashir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 11:49
http://khakokhoon.blogfa.com
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  Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 12:01
Originally posted by beorna

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

In Greek the name has been changed to "Albania", it is interesting that people of the modern country of Albania in Europe call their country "Shqiperia" which just means “Country of the Eagle”.
 I am sure you know that Alb- means white, Albania, Albion, Alpi montes.....


I think everyone knows about the ancient Caucasian Alban kingdom in the modern day Azerbaijan.

Albania simply means country of Mountains in Latin.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 15:14
Originally posted by beorna

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

In Greek the name has been changed to "Albania", it is interesting that people of the modern country of Albania in Europe call their country "Shqiperia" which just means “Country of the Eagle”.
 I am sure you know that Alb- means white, Albania, Albion, Alpi montes.....
Words could have different meaning in different languages or even in one language, what does it prove? Do you want to say Alans were Greek? "Alupan" (l->r) Arpan in Old Persian (p->b) Alban in Greek (p->v) Alvank in Armenian, ...
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 21:41
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

[
Words could have different meaning in different languages or even in one language, what does it prove? Do you want to say Alans were Greek? "Alupan" (l->r) Arpan in Old Persian (p->b) Alban in Greek (p->v) Alvank in Armenian, ...
Come on, I am sure you know what I meant. The Alans have nothing to do with Balkan Albanians, as less as with British people on Albion or with people from the Alps. And an eagle you can find all around the world, Germany, Prussia, Russia, USA .....
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2008 at 05:50
You are absolutely wrong because Alans had migrated to most of those regions, Alani-map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Alani_map.jpg
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2008 at 19:28
there is no evidence whatseover that Alans moved into Northafrica. by litterary evidence the Vanadals killed all Alans in Spain. and the map doesn't show Alans in Brittany, from which we know they settled there.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2008 at 22:44
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

You are absolutely wrong because Alans had migrated to most of those regions, Alani-map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Alani_map.jpg
Your map is a mixture of the migration of Alans and of the Hasdingi, Silingi and Suebi. The  Alans were very important for the politics in the 5th century. But the Iberian Alans subdued to Geisarich in Spain and moved to North Africa were they became a part of the Vandali. But all this has nothing to do with Albania or the eagle. They were important, you don't need to invent (hi)stories.
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  Quote Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2008 at 19:34
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_G_(Y-DNA)
 
 
I believe Alans were originally a group whose males take Y-DNA G2 maker, and those who take G2 maker are probably descendants of Alans or Scythians if Ossetians are directly descended from the Alans. 
 
Most males of Iran males take G1 maker, so I think Alans and Irans were brothers but not same one.
 
There was ever a Mongol tribe named Asud who was descended from Alans, today some Mongol's surname are Asud, I hope we find G2 marker among those family with surname Asud.
 
 


Edited by Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai - 20-Sep-2008 at 19:51
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