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Role of human species on Planet Earth

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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Role of human species on Planet Earth
    Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 21:32
I will start off with an question followed by an assumption that I don't necessarily believe in, but which is necessary for the question that I wish discussed to be meaningful. What is the role or purpose of humans on Planet Earth? (the assumption being that there is indeed such a thing as a higher purpose for our existence as a species in the overall grand scheme of things in the billions of years covering the evolution of life on this planet).
I don't quite know what to think. Certainly in the short term we are being very destructive as a species, almost to an unprecedented degree. On the other hand, in the long term, the picture may change quite a bit. Once either the humans will have either wiped themselves out along with most other species on earth, or evolved to the point of no longer destroying the ecosystems around them (I know I know what wishful thinking!) , the Earth's ecosystem will eventually rebound. Let's call this moment X. Humanity's destructive practices will then have culled a variety of species and will have left behind mostly those which are most adaptable. This could prove a relative boon to the eventual complexity of the other species which will evolve from them a few million years hence. In the grand scheme of things, thus destruction could be a good thing... Also, during the last century of industrial expansion, we have added unprecedented quantities of fixed nitrogen in the soil (and thus to the ecosystem), through our use of fertilizers based on fossil fuels. This nitrogen is currently being used by the species which the humans species has formed a biological alliance with (domestic plants and animals), but after the human species in one way or another will no longer do this, it will be transferred to other ecosystems. Since nitrogen is used in DNA, and its scarcity is a limiting factor in life's development, it could result that our destructive industrial practices could again result in a boon to life on earth after moment X....
 
Any thoughts?
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  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2008 at 23:06
           I`ll start this with a comparison between mankind and their less complex relatives"the animalia"( I do not accept  Homo sapiens in animal kingdom")
          When the  animals come into the world, they come complete in all points in accordance with their abilities as though having been perfected in another world; that is, they are sent. They learn all the conditions of their lives, their relationships with the universe, and the laws of life in either two hours or two days or two months, and become proficient in them.This means that the animals' fundamental duty is not to be perfected through learning and progress by acquiring knowledge, nor to seek help and offer supplications through displaying their impotence, but in accordance with their abilities to work and act.
            As for man, he needs to learn everything when he comes into the world; he is ignorant, and cannot even learn completely the conditions of life in twenty years. Indeed, he needs to go on learning till the end of his life. Also he is sent to the world in a most weak and impotent form, and can only rise to his feet in one or two years. Only in fifteen years can he distinguish between harm and benefit, and with the help of mankind's experience attract things advantageous to him and avoid others that are harmful. This means that man's innate duty is to be perfected through learning.


Edited by Murat - 10-Aug-2008 at 23:10
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  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2008 at 10:08
Originally posted by Decebal

I will start off with an question followed by an assumption that I don't necessarily believe in, but which is necessary for the question that I wish discussed to be meaningful. What is the role or purpose of humans on Planet Earth? (the assumption being that there is indeed such a thing as a higher purpose for our existence as a species in the overall grand scheme of things in the billions of years covering the evolution of life on this planet).
 
 
Any thoughts?
 
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  Quote Aussiedude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2008 at 09:54
IMO, creatures don't have a "role". They do, however, fill a niche in the environment. Is that what you meant, what "niche" do we fill?
 
QUOTE=Murat]           I`ll start this with a comparison between mankind and their less complex relatives"the animalia"( I do not accept  Homo sapiens in animal kingdom")
          [/QUOTE]
Why on Earth not? Some religious reason, I presume?
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  Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2008 at 04:34
Consider-Humans are extremely intelligent. In fact, we are far more intelligent than we need to be to survive. Our (relatively) vast intellect is an example of a survival trait (reasoning, problem-solving, memory, social interaction) taken to an almost absurd extreme, to the point where, rather than giving us an edge against the competition, it gives us a blindingly overwhelming advantage. We are essentially incapable of being truly harmed, as a species, by anything short of a new ice age or meteorite strike, some extremely cataclysmic event beyond any normal limits--and even that probably wouldn't kill ALL of us, especially if we had some warning.

This vast advantage is, in a word, unnecessary. We, as a species, are unnecessarily intelligent, unnecessarily powerful, and unnecessarily prevalent. Almost every defining characteristic about us is not really needed for our survival as a species, merely helpful to said survival.

Consequently, perhaps the only real purpose to our unnecessary and (in some ways) absurd existence is, basically, to create our own purposes.

Think about it. None of our civilization, none of our technology, and none of our vast accomplishments are truly necessary. All we need to survive is, basically, what a chimpanzee or a gorilla might have, and possibly even less. A social group to guard us (relatively) weak creatures, food, water, and progeny. (Admittedly, when you get right down to an argument about what "necessary" really means and what it is, you can argue yourself silly--let's assume necessary means: the species keeps surviving, having children, etc. barring some vast cataclysm.)

Our lifestyle is unecessary, and our accomplishments are too--but they are admirable. And because it could be seen as inevitable that, as intelligence is a useful tool for survival, intelligent life will eventually arise, and that, as the race for survival is just that (a race), intelligence will become more and more until a species is unecessarily intelligent, and given that unecessary intelligence will likely create unecessary but helpful things, and given that, with enough growth, civilization will arise from this process, and given that civilization, being by nature a progressive rather than regressive process will eventually create what could be termed an entirely new kind of ecosystem, dependent on different rules, processes, passions, and ideas, and given that this progression will, once it has started continue (because it is a result of unnecessary intelligence, and no species would wish to remove their own ability to think, or, as it is better termed, their best survival trait), essentially, the only choice once you ARE an unnecessarily intelligent species is to keep being yourself; creating, inventing, imagining, and doing things that arose initally from the desire for survival, but (now that you will survive) have become part of a different desire; the desire for accomplishment.

Ah, philosophy...

Anyways, there's my very long two cents.




Edited by TheARRGH - 30-Sep-2008 at 03:47
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2008 at 01:51
Originally posted by TheARRGH

Consider-Humans are extremely intelligent. In fact, we are far more intelligent than we need to be to survive. Our (relatively) vast intellect is an example of a survival trait (reasoning, problem-solving, memory, social interaction) taken to an almost absurd extreme, to the point where, rather than giving us an edge against the competition, it gives us a blindingly overwhelming advantage. We are essentially incapable of being truly harmed, as a species, by anything short of a new ice age or meterite strike, some extremely cataclysmic event beyond any normal limits--and even that probably wouldn't kill ALL of us, especially if we had some warning.

This vast advantage is, in a word, unnecessary. We, as a species, are unnecessarily intelligent, unnecessarily powerful, and unnecessarily prevalent. Almost every defining characteristic about us is not really needed for our survival as a species, merely helpful to said survival.

Consequently, perhaps the only real purpose to our unnecessary and (in some ways) absurd existence is, basically, to create our own purposes.

Think about it. None of our civilization, none of our technology, and none of our vast accomplishments are truly necessary. All we need to survive is, basically, what a chimpanzee or a gorilla might have, and possibly even less. A social group to guard us (relatively) weak creatures, food, water, and progeny. (Admittedly, when you get right down to an argument about what "necessary" really means and what it is, you can argue yourself silly--let's assume necessary means: the species keeps surviving, having children, etc. barring some vast cataclysm.)

Our lifestyle is unecessary, and our accomplishments are too--but they are admirable. And because it could be seen as inevitable that, as intelligence is a useful tool for survival, intelligent life will eventually arise, and that, as the race for survival is just that (a race), intelligence will become more and more until a species is unecessarily intelligent, and given that unecessary intelligence will likely create unecessary but helpful things, and given that, with enough growth, civilization will arise from this process, and given that civilization, being by nature a progressive rather than regressive process will eventually create what could be termed an entirely new kind of ecosystem, dependent on different rules, processes, passions, and ideas, and given that this progression will, once it has startedm continue (because it is a result of unecessary intelligence, and no species would wish to remove their own ability to think, or, as it is better termed, their best survival trait), essentially, the only choice once you ARE an unecessarily intelligent species is to keep being yourself; creating, inventing, imagining, and doing things that arose initally from the desire for survival, but (now that you will survive) have become part of a different desire; the desire for accomplishment.

Ah, philosophy...

Anyways, there's my very long two cents.




http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/steven_pinker_chalks_it_up_to_the_blank_slate.html

for the most part, I agree with you. however, we aren't nearly as intelligent as we need to be to solve our most basic problems: overpopulation, technology and space travel, social interactions with groups larger than 200 members, et cetera. (in time we'll improve, or destroy ourselves.) we certainly are not the strongest or fastest animal, and very few of us harness the full human mental capacity. from an evolutionary approach: we _have_ needed every aspect of ourselves, and our many bizarre talents (writing, e.g.) are perhaps the results of cultural memes causing us to use our brains in unusual ways; we can't grasp the quantum. we wouldn't _need less_ than less-intelligent great-apes. ; ^ )

we are conscious at a level beyond the other species capable of passing the mirror test (like dolphins or bonobos); our accomplishments and desires are outgrowths of who we are as a species. our accomplishments are necessary, admirable only because we've been able to bring our thoughts to momentarily blinding extremes. these, in sequence, unlock more options: mirror linked to mirror linked to that eternal light source, our minds, granting us the choice to realize and manifest anything we can imagine or hope to imagine.

intelligence allows for the creation of purpose. eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


Edited by Aeolus - 30-Sep-2008 at 02:39
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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2008 at 01:56
Introduction of plastic to our marvelous biospehere
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  Quote charlesbrough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 19:36
The ROLE of the human species?  That seems to me to be a loaded question that infers that some "Being" needs to have us serve a role.  Myself, I see no "role" for wasps, for example, any more than for us, but that does not mean we cannot or do not have GOALs which we or our societies set and which we try to achieve.  That, to me, is our "purpose."  Setting goals and achieving them makes "progress." 

Unfortunately, our civilization seems adrift because our goals add up to a rather a sorry lot!  In our modern secular consumer-oriented society, the goal is "the pursuit of happiness!"  Is "happiness" something you can achieve by pursuing it, really?  And what are the other purposes, if any?  Is one "making the world safe for 'democracy'?  Then, when we finally achieve that wondrous goal and the whole world is "democractic" like we have here in the US (?), does that mean the human race has from there on no "role" "purpose" or goal left to achieve?  Wouldn't that mean, as Fukuyama proposed, "The End of History"? (!!!)

Or, we have the ancient, obsolete old Biblical goal, "The End Times" and the "Second Coming."  I suspect that this has become the worst goal of all.  If we do have an End Times just to make the faithful happy and feel they are going to be "saved," our atomic war might mean the end of civilization and an unparalleled population crash---and all without Him returning after all . . .


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2008 at 19:43
humans are a parasite to earth biosphere, that's for sure. However, perhaps in the future mankind would be the carrier of life to the rest of the solar system, and maybe one day beyond to the stars. If that ever happened, the life of mankind won't be in vain. Otherwise, forget it.
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  Quote charlesbrough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 14:05
Yes, we have to keep spreading or experience peak crowding and a population crash---something that would surely involve atomic war.  Spreading into and eventually throughout the universe is our only enduring destiny.  Anything else is doom are a reversion back to where we start virtually all over again but in a world contaminated and depleted.

Pinguin, I notice you are from Chili.  I am reading a book titled "The Shock Doctrine" by Naoim Klein.  In it, it describes behind the scenes what went on in Chili as well as Argentina and Uragway during the brutal dictatorial years (1976-1983 and later).  He describes the economic cult of U.S. economist Friedman and his Chicago School graduates that convinced the Dictator before he even took over government that he had a grand opportunity to start the new economic program of Freidman all at once. 

He did, with the help of his secret services and the torturing and murdering of tens of thousands of liberal-minded citizens.  This miserable policy spread to Argentine and Uruguay Army despots. 

Few in the U.S. are really aware of what went on in all those years in "the Southern Cone."
I suspect the opposition the U.S. government and press have here to the populist regimes of Venezuela and others reflects the subtle right-wing influence on the press here as well.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 15:16
Originally posted by charlesbrough

Pinguin, I notice you are from Chili.  I am reading a book titled "The Shock Doctrine" by Naoim Klein.  In it, it describes behind the scenes what went on in Chili as well as Argentina and Uragway during the brutal dictatorial years (1976-1983 and later).  He describes the economic cult of U.S. economist Friedman and his Chicago School graduates that convinced the Dictator before he even took over government that he had a grand opportunity to start the new economic program of Freidman all at once. 

He did, with the help of his secret services and the torturing and murdering of tens of thousands of liberal-mindehd citizens.  This miserable policy spread to Argentine and Uruguay Army despots. 

Few in the U.S. are really aware of what went on in all those years in "the Southern Cone."
I suspect the opposition the U.S. government and press have here to the populist regimes of Venezuela and others reflects the subtle right-wing influence on the press here as well.
 
Well, those were dark days for people all over Latin America. The origin was the Cold War and the clash of ideologies between marxism propagated by the U.S.S.R. and the capitalism defended by the U.S. The fact was that after the Cuban revolution, and specially after the missile crisis of Cuba -that almost blew up the world- a dirty war between communism and fascism spread all over Latin America. The sad fact is that the United States, instead of reinforcing our shaky democracies of the time, preffered to back up anyone that could stand against communists. And those opponents were usually fascist and in many cases plainly nazis.
 
In Chile, there was many social problems around the 70s. We have a large social inequality and agricultural reforms hadn't being made as yet. Our economy was largelly owned by foreing companies, among them Anaconda, ITT and others of very bad memory. As a result a socialist president was elected that year, who promissed a "democratic road to socialism". Well, that was the beginning of the plotting of a coup against him.
 
Three years later, in an environment of violence, hyperinflation and semi-anarchy, the militaries, backed up by the U.S. took power violently. They captured communists and leftists by the thousand and send them to concentration camps. They tortured many people and around three thousand were killed at the time and in the years that followed. A strict military regime was putted on place.
 
Now, after Nixon fall down in the U.S. the regime become isolated and economics seem even worst than before. At the time we have the menace of invasion from Peru and Argentine that wanted to take revenge from old conflicts. Chile lacked money to buy guns and nobody wanted to sale them to us. As a result, Pinochet was FORCED to look for a solution, and he found it in free-economy of Milton Freedman style.
 
To make the story short. A group of economical engineers of Chicago applied the free market ideology in the country, with hand of iron. Surprisedly, in the long term it worked. And even after four democratic governments after Pinochet, including a socialist president, the economic model is still in place and working.
 
These days, many of the torturers of Pinochet have been punished, the dictator dies and nobody remembers him, and our country returned to the normality. The economy works fine, so nobody has worried about changing the approach.
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  Quote charlesbrough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 19:25
Do you have a universal social security government pension system there also?  I wonder if you might have a universal government run medical system there like in Canada and Europe?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 22:36
Originally posted by charlesbrough

Do you have a universal social security government pension system there also?  I wonder if you might have a universal government run medical system there like in Canada and Europe?
 
There is some medical security, but it is not as solidary as it happened in Canada or Europe. Poor people can die waiting on line for an operation, literalilly. Many people had ended deep in poverty to pay for hospital bills.
 
Chile don't protect its people as much as developed countries. In here, if you don't work, don't eat. That simple. With respect to social security, the system is private. Depending on how much people makes and if the employer contracts them, theirs savings grows. Otherwise, sorry. 
 
All these lack of solidarity with people is an heritage of Pinochet, and it is rooted in the ideas of savage capitalism we have in place in my country, and that has become sort of a religion.
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 23-Nov-2008 at 22:42
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 23:21
Originally posted by pinguin

humans are a parasite to earth biosphere, that's for sure.
Parasite is a very human expression. Mankind uses the resources that it is able to get. Every specie changes or at least influences its environment. Dinosaurs did, Elephants do and we do it too. Perhaps one day we'll destroy our environment, perhaps, then we extinct. But perhaps we're learning, then you can be right and we'll carrying terrestrial life to other planets, moons or solar systems. Who knows?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 00:01
What amazes me is that the simple presence of humans made a lot of impact in our planet. Do you know that every single island Polinesians colonized suffered a cathastrophic decline in biodiversity? Do you realize the Americas had a fauna even more impressive than Africa when the humans arrived 15.000 years ago? Yes, in the Americas there were mamuts, mastodons, milodons, giant armadillos, horses and quite a bit of very amazing species before humans crossed the bering strait. Wth European colonization a new wave of destruction, even more deadly this time, started to spread throught the world.
 
I wonder if we are going to survive after so much damage we have done to our environment. The polynesians of Easter Island, for instance, were at the edge of extinction because their own wrongs against to the environment of the island, and perhaps they escape extinction because they were colonized.
 
I hope the earth as a whole don't reach that point in the future, but who knows? Take the hole in the ozone layer, for example, it is ever going to be fixed?
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 24-Nov-2008 at 00:03
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 00:10

Well, we're perhaps more destructive than any other species before. But species were extinct since the beginning of life and if we're wiped out one day it will go on.

I don't say this because I am European. You're right with the colonisation of the world by Europeans the destruction got a new level, but humans all around the world damaged there environment before, look e.g. at the Maya. So this is no specific European behavior.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 00:31
I didn't blame europeans alone, that's why I put there the impact of polynesians and amerindians as well. But, it is true we are a very destructive species. I just hope we don't destroy the earth to the point it stop to produce oxygen and water in the scale we need to survive, and hopefully we'll have enough land to farm and enough fish to eat. Otherwise, we will be in a big throuble. It is just impossible to fit millions of people in rocketships, so this is the only place we will ever have for the large majority of mankind.

Edited by pinguin - 24-Nov-2008 at 00:33
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 00:37
Usually a man learns from his faults. Only a clever man learns from the faults of the others. I am not sure we are as clever as we believe. So we'll learn from our faults....if the earth allows it to us. If not we'll join the great family of species like Tyrannosaurus, Spinosaurus, Brachiosaurus, Ichthyosaurus, Ursus spelaeus, Megalodon and all the others, so that one far day other species can dig for our bones.
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  Quote charlesbrough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2008 at 12:51
Our problem could reach a crisis in much the same way it does with other animals.  On an island crowded with deer, they do not have to increase in numbers until they run out of enough food.  Instead, they sense when their numbers have become too dense, before ruining their environment, and begin to die of stress.  Upon investigation, it has been learned that the adrenal glands were in a pathological state.

In rats and mice, the same sense of "crowding" comes before they run out of food when their space and food is confined.  When that sense is triggered, their behavior deteriorates.  Gangs of them form and begin fighting and raping.  They intrude into home furrows, females desert the home to go out and "see the action."  Some males just go into a trance.

We are biologically similar in that we also feel it when we become too dense together, but something else is involved with us.  We have language and it enables us to have common world views or "religions"---including secular belief systems---that mitigate against that "crowded" feeling.  The only problem there is that religions grow old.  They divided and re-divide so that they lose that ability and stress builds up---and behavior deteriorates!

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2008 at 20:59
[QUOTE
I wonder if we are going to survive after so much damage we have done to our environment. The polynesians of Easter Island, for instance, were at the edge of extinction because their own wrongs against to the environment of the island, and perhaps they escape extinction because they were colonized.
 
I hope the earth as a whole don't reach that point in the future, but who knows? Take the hole in the ozone layer, for example, it is ever going to be fixed?
 
 
[/QUOTE]
 
 
 
There is still considerable controversey surrounding the hole in the ozone layer.  There is a school of thought that holds the belief that there has always been a hole.  There is some evidence to support this.
 
 
 
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