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Population growth&food
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Murat View Drop Down
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Population growth&food
    Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 22:16
I strongly belive that there will allways be enough food and energy sources for human being because all the meanings of the past,current and future times are, just in the minds of the mankind.The following statement might seem true for some people but NOT. 
         "Population growth is known as one of the driving forces behind environmental problems, because the growing population demands more and more (non-renewable) resources for its own application."
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 00:02
Here's hoping the rest of the world has a much more realistic approach.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 02:40

Enough food? Perhaps, but we could get short of air and water sooner than we expect.

Today the world is overcrowded already. I wonder how long the world will keep feeding those regions that still reproduce as if the resources are infinite, without any responsability at all.
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 10:59
The most of the minds are  far away from the free thoughts,and lack the ability of observation of the universe.
 the disaster scenarios of the media, even in movies(mostly threating the new york :)) confused the people`s minds.
I said "strongly " because we are living in a very dynamic system of life boat(biosphere). 
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Posts: 591 		  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 11:43
Whilst I agree that resources are not finite, nevertheless they are vast.
 
Given proper management of the environment (note the disaster in Zimbabwe) this planet is capable of feeding far greater numbers than currently exist.
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 12:24
Originally posted by pinguin

Enough food? Perhaps, but we could get short of air and water sooner than we expect.

Today the world is overcrowded already. I wonder how long the world will keep feeding those regions that still reproduce as if the resources are infinite, without any responsability at all.
 I claim that the existance of mankind is not only dependent up on the current resources.I coldn`t understand that you meant a birth control?or an inevitable war.?
There may be two other conjectures:
1-our necessity and poverty will lead our curiousity to discover some other way to supply our needs.
2-the populations of the world will become much more friendly to each other and share their ownings in fair.
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Posts: 526 		  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 12:37
Originally posted by Peteratwar

 
Given proper management of the environment (note the disaster in Zimbabwe) this planet is capable of feeding far greater numbers than currently exist.


I agree, Croatia for example, could feed 8m people or even more, and it import food... it's all about managing
For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 14:25

Then, keep crowding the planet with billions of analphabets that will migrate to more developed regions to sale drugs and profit on crime. Devast the few wild regions that remain in the world, where people still escape to have a break from those overcrowded cemetery that are our cities. 

Let's grow up to when the earth blew up.

 

 



Edited by pinguin - 29-Jul-2008 at 14:29
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 14:28
Originally posted by Murat

1-our necessity and poverty will lead our curiousity to discover some other way to supply our needs.
 
Do we need more poors and analphabets? I bet not
 
Originally posted by Murat

2-the populations of the world will become much more friendly to each other and share their ownings in fair.
 
People is not very friendly when they see crowds of poors and analphabets invading theirs countries. That's seen worldwide. As population grows, people will become even more unhappy with alliens.
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 15:54
Originally posted by pinguin

Then, keep crowding the planet with billions of analphabets that will migrate to more developed regions to sale drugs and profit on crime. Devast the few wild regions that remain in the world, where people still escape to have a break from those overcrowded cemetery that are our cities. 

Let's grow up to when the earth blew up.

 

 

What I said is not an optimistic hope about our future,the current realities are the heritages of the previous generations`sistematic idologcal applications.History is pregnant to  healthy interactions of the nations.Because we all know each other better and accept the humanistic rights ..because humans are wise....

Edited by Murat - 29-Jul-2008 at 15:55
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 17:37
Originally posted by Murat

..What I said is not an optimistic hope about our future,the current realities are the heritages of the previous generations`sistematic idologcal applications.History is pregnant to  healthy interactions of the nations.Because we all know each other better and accept the humanistic rights ..because humans are wise....
 
¿Humans are wise? It is hard to agree after seeing WW II, the Cold War, Chernobil, DDT, HIV, global warming, etc.
 
Yes, there are some wise humans, like the ancient native Americans that believed in the respect to Mother Nature, and that didn't exploit earth to exaustion. However, puting billion after billion of humans without control on planet Earth won't assure us our survival at all.
Even worst, if we do survive we could end living as crowded as in a poor "favela" of Rio, or Bombai, this time at a global scale, without natural life and deep into poverty and garbage.
 


Edited by pinguin - 29-Jul-2008 at 17:39
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Murat View Drop Down
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 13:59
What a correlation ! Clap
between being wise and the respect to Mother Nature.You know it can not be the only factor to be wise.The classical life style of the human being is not certainly necessary to be alive.Everything may change but mankind exists.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote comrade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 14:42

Hi folks...

The earth, world or the Mother Nature -whatever we call it- is quiet enough for us all as long as we do not abuse it or keep it for ourselves only, as long as we are willing to share it with others (OTHERS not martians, i mean other felloe eartians :) )
eternity is just round the corner...
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Murat View Drop Down
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 19:29
Comrade ! As you meant in all your spectrums,we all have a common background physiologically and historically.So We are not going to extinct.There will be able to a punishment for the mankind in the future but not by the mother nature(!)...It has not been and It won`t be the subject . 
If there is nail there must be a hammer,if there are wise people there must be food...always


Edited by Murat - 01-Aug-2008 at 20:01
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 20:02
 food...always

Edited by Murat - 01-Aug-2008 at 20:03
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 20:04
...always

Edited by Murat - 01-Aug-2008 at 20:05
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 20:52
Originally posted by Murat

Comrade ! As you meant in all your spectrums,we all have a common background physiologically and historically.
 
We are also related genetically, physiological and historically with chimps and amoebas... so, what's the point?
 
Originally posted by Murat

So We are not going to extinct.
 
I bet dinosaurs thought the same LOL
 
Originally posted by Murat

There will be able to a punishment for the mankind in the future but not by the mother nature(!)...It has not been and It won`t be the subject . 
 
Don't forget that hunger was common worldwide up to the middle of the 20th century. Nobody ensure us the problem won't come back now that billions of starving people reproduce like crazy.
 
Originally posted by Murat

If there is nail there must be a hammer,if there are wise people there must be food...always
 
That's just faith. Let's hope the worst scenarios won't happens. However, poor people in very poor countries it seem believe they deserve to be feed for free forever. That's possible while the population are small, but it won't continue forever with populations growing exponentially.
 
Better that good vibrations, teach people responsable parenting. I think.
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 01-Aug-2008 at 20:53
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Posts: 1791 		  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 21:32

The faith in the Earth always being capable of supporting ever increasing numbers of people is naive at best and foolish at worst. On what are based those assumptions that a country like Croatia can feed 8 million more, for example? On the assumption that the current modes of food production can be continued indefinietely, which is impossible for 2 very important reasons.

1. The production of food is really the conversion of energy in organic molecules. Normally, all such energy on Earth came almost exclusively from the sun, and for the past hundred years from fossil fuels, which have been used to make fertilizers. The addition of what is effect energy captured hundreds of millions ago from the sun to the planetary ecosystem accounts for the exponential rate of increase during the past century. Without oil, which is not a renewable resource, and using only energy from the sun, such growth rates are impossible (in fact I once heard that the Earth could not support more than 2 billion people without fertilizers).
 
2. Humans have been depending on the extension of the lands used to grow plants useful for humans to sustain population growth. However, these species are not as efficient as others (tropical trees for instance), in producing oxygen and fixating carbon dioxide. But oxygen is very reactive and depends upon plants producing it for it not to be exhausted in the atmopshere. Which means that there is a point past which expanding the land areas used for agricultural production is impossible because it would entail a reduction in available atmospheric oxygen.
 
There is a lot more to it, such as nitrogen fixation, global weather patterns, problems of food transportation and others, but these are the 2 most important reasons.
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Murat View Drop Down
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Posts: 86 		  Quote Murat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 22:12
  We are also related genetically, physiological and historically with chimps and amoebas... so, what's the point?
[/QUOTE]
The point is: some elements were deficient during the education of alot of people that`s why they belive in darwinism or it`s post modern forms.Can you imagine the formation of carbohydrates ,liipids,proteins, vitamins for the the cells of your body which are imported from outside.This is a whole complicated system and errors are controlled by one power.one ruler one manager.That can not be spontaneous.I do not say human has no  willpower.I meant that whatever or whoever we are we all be supplied with food and energy sources in some ways .
 
I bet dinosaurs thought the same LOL
 
 [/QUOTE] I think dinosaurs did not ride horses,didn`t cultivate plants and didn````````````````````````t bet.
 
 
 
Don't forget that hunger was common worldwide up to the middle of the 20th century. Nobody ensure us the problem won't come back now that billions of starving people reproduce like crazy.
 
That``s true.I agree. there is no ensurance.I said there will always be food but i did not say sth. about sharing and ownership.Here is some facts :
 

types of foods and expenditures for one week

I could not attached the graph due to my insufficent permission Big%20smile 
 
That's just faith. Let's hope the worst scenarios won't happens. However, poor people in very poor countries it seem believe they deserve to be feed for free forever. That's possible while the population are small, but it won't continue forever with populations growing exponentially.
 
Better that good vibrations, teach people responsable parenting. I think.
 
I hope, I hope .(not from the mother natureWink)
The reduction of human population ...That sounds simple but more difficult.
[/QUOTE]

Edited by Murat - 01-Aug-2008 at 22:15
Why should I seek? I am the same as
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I have been looking for myself!----Rumi
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2008 at 05:42
Originally posted by Decebal

The faith in the Earth always being capable of supporting ever increasing numbers of people is naive at best and foolish at worst. On what are based those assumptions that a country like Croatia can feed 8 million more, for example? On the assumption that the current modes of food production can be continued indefinietely, ....
 
Absolutely agree!
 
There are many examples that human populations, even in small numbers produced drastical damages to the environment. For instance, after man entered the Americas all the extraordinary megafauna that lived in here for millions of years went extinct. The same happened in every single island of Polynesia, where mass extinctions after the introduction of man was the norm. The case of Easter Island is more tragic because there population ended starving, after the island was deforested and the land couldn't feed people anymore. Today, Easter Island is a land without forest, and the only place where you can see a relative of the palm tree of Easter Island is in mainland Chile!
 
Now, when numbers grow, the demands on the environment skyrocket. It is just impossible to continue that way forever. South Asia and Africa has many problems already that are very hard to fix. South Saharan Africa is getting dry already! Problems will be even harder in the future, and with such a large ever growing numbers, emigration -even if authorized- won't solve anything.
 
With respect to Croatia, and any single European country with the exception of Russia, it is well known those countries are overcrowded already, and they can stand such high densities only because theirs industrial productivity is top in the world, and they have money to buy food and resources elsewhere. That is not the case of places like Bangladesh or South Saharan Africa.
 
No matter how rich a country is, there are things it can't produce. I doubt that there are enough trees in Croatia to produce enough oxygen for theirs people to breath Confused.
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 02-Aug-2008 at 05:51
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