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longest military occupation

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  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: longest military occupation
    Posted: 08-Mar-2005 at 22:59

what was the longest occupation of a foreign country?

i know china occupied vietnam from 111 BC until 939 AD with succession of different chinese dynasties and states.

was that the longest occupation?

"

Vietnam

A distinct civilisation begins to emerge in the north of present-day Vietnam from about 2000 BC. By the 6th Century BC the Vietnamese have developed an elaborate irrigation system for the cultivation of rice and a sophisticated culture.

Self-rule comes to an end in the 208 BC when the neighbouring Chinese invade, beginning a 1,000-year occupation. Chinese domination is cemented in 111 BC when the powerful Han Empire takes control, though Vietnamese resistance remains. Rebellion breaks out in 39 AD but is put down within two years. The rebel leaders are the sisters Trung Trac and Trung Nhi. Celebrated as national heroes, they drown themselves rather than face capture by the Chinese.

Rebellion surfaces again in the 2nd Century and will continue sporadically for the next 800 years, the periods of greatest unrest corresponding with the times of greatest Chinese interference. An independent Vietnamese kingdom is formed in 543 but lasts for only 50 years. Meanwhile, Vietnamese rebels based in the Red River Delta develop the hit-and-run tactics of guerrilla warfare that will be employed 1400 years later during the Vietnam War.

In 939 a Vietnamese general establishes himself as king of an independent Vietnam. National unity is strengthened during the succeeding dynasty of Dinh Bo Linh and consolidated in 1009 when Ly Cong Uan takes the thrown. The Ly Dynasty will last until 1225 and begins the expansion of Vietnam south along the coastal plain. The expansion continues during the subsequent Tran Dynasty, though by the end of the 14th Century Vietnam is in danger of fracturing from internal dissent. In 1407 the Chinese reassert control.

This time Chinese rule is shortlived. Rebel leader Le Loi builds a resistance force and defeats the Chinese in 1428. He takes the thrown and establishes a dynasty that will last until 1788, although once again internal dissent convulses the country, resulting in a partition in 1545. The southern 'Nguyen' continue their conquest of coastal territories and the Mekong Delta, encroaching into Kampuchea-Krom (today's southern Vietnam), which is inhabited by the culturally distinct Khmers (today's Cambodians). In the north the 'Trinh' consolidate their rule.

The country is reunited in 1786 during the 'Tay Son Rebellion', a period of war and instability that ends in 1802 with the enthronement of Gia Long, an emperor indebted to both the French and the Chinese for his rise. Gia Long changes the name of the country from Dai Viet to Nam Viet but is required by the Chinese to invert this to Viet Nam. French and European influence now becomes a growing factor in Vietnamese politics. By the middle of the 19th Century the French are planning for greater interference.

By 1862 the French have forcibly seized Kampuchea-Krom territory in the south and signed the 'Treaty of Saigon' granting them trade concessions and giving them control of three provinces. The entire country is made a French protectorate in 1883.

Under French colonial rule Vietnam is partitioned into three sectors. Vietnamese are prohibited from travelling outside their districts without identity papers. Freedom of expression and organisation are restricted. Individuals can be imprisoned at the whim of any French magistrate.

As land is progressively alienated by large landholders, the number of landless peasants grows. Neglect of the education system causes the literacy rate to fall.

Vietnamese anticolonial movements being to coalesce early in the 20th Century but are actively suppressed by the French. "

http://www.moreorless.au.com/background/vietnam.htm



Edited by coolstorm
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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2005 at 12:19

First of all, there was no country call Vietnam until 939 a.d. when the kingdom of Da Yue was created and it was known as Annam to other countries and later became Vietnam.

The territory of Vietnam wasn't occupied in 208 b.c., only Hanoi was. The Han didn't invade Vietnam, it was the kingdom of Nan Yue or Nam Viet, which was found by Qin genearl Zhao Tuo, and that kingdom included the modern boundaries of Vietnam within its empire.

The Trun sister wasn't drowned, thats just a folklore passed down from generation to generation, they were executed by Ma Yuan after they were defeated. And despite the nationalistic spiels that modern day politicians are giving, their was no sense of separate identity, many Viet chieftains are proud to call themselves Han people during the Han dynasty and Tang people during the Tang dynasty. The rebellions are among the oppressed commoners not because they feel to be different.

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  Quote Kshtriya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2005 at 12:49
Either it is the british occupation of hong kong or it MIGHT be Gibraltar, but that is up to debate
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  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2005 at 16:02

Either it is the british occupation of hong kong or it MIGHT be Gibraltar, but that is up to debate 

i don't think so. british occupation of hong kong lasted only 152 years. even the british occupation of india is longer than hong kong.



Edited by coolstorm
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  Quote Roughneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 00:07
At what point is it no longer a military occupation?  We've seen from polls that the Gibralterese (?) prefer British rule, and they don't need to be forcibly occupied.  If it's the simple fact that they keep troops there, then every nation on earth is under military occupation.
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  Quote coolstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 03:37

a military occuption of an area by a foreign power.

a governing power over a foreign state or region also counts.

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  Quote aghart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 14:57
Originally posted by coolstorm

a military occuption of an area by a foreign power.

a governing power over a foreign state or region also counts.

 

Then Hong Kong does not count.  Hong Kong island and Kowloon were ceded to Britain by China, this made them British sovereign territory.

The New territories of Hong Kong were leased to Britain for 99 years (ending in 1997) and so were being "rented" not occupied by Britain.

Technically, legally, Britain did not have to hand over Hong Kong island or Kowloon to the Chinese when returning the New Territories to Chinese rule. Of course it made sense to do so and thankfully common sense prevailed.



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 18:12
Colonization counts then? Because if it does, I would like to point out that many regions of Latin America were occuppied by Spain and Portugal for a long time. For example, Mexico was under control of Spain for three hundred years (1521-1821).
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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2005 at 15:59

another fellow mexican on board ?
And yes, if colonization counts, well, then Latin America colonization by 300 years might be good for the records.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2005 at 16:50

"many Viet chieftains are proud to call themselves Han people during the Han dynasty and Tang people during the Tang dynasty"

Mind telling me which Viet "chieftains" who proudly call themselves as Han people?

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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2005 at 17:04
How about the Norman occupation of England? 1066-    .

Of course that is disputable, as eventually occupations cease being occupations when the native population assimilates the conquerors, or vica versa.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2005 at 17:18

Originally posted by Kshtriya

Either it is the british occupation of hong kong or it MIGHT be Gibraltar, but that is up to debate

Neither Hong Kong or Gibralter are countries.

Romans occupied Spain for a long time, but it wasn't a country back then, like the Vietnam case.

China occupied by the Mongols, Greece by the Ottomans both were countries in their modern state before invasion.



Edited by Paul
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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2005 at 08:41
Ottoman occupation in Balkans lasted about 500 years...
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2005 at 14:08

Originally posted by Constantine XI

How about the Norman occupation of England? 1066-    .

Of course that is disputable, as eventually occupations cease being occupations when the native population assimilates the conquerors, or vica versa.

Yeah, the english eventually did assimilate their norman conquerers, the only main thing that the normans assimilated was their way of aristocracy beat the old english way.

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  Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2005 at 17:10

Originally posted by kotumeyil

Ottoman occupation in Balkans lasted about 500 years...

The term "occupation" is inapropriate here.

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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2005 at 17:13

This topic is ancient!

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2005 at 17:43
I think occupation here implies that a military presence was needed to maintain control over those areas.  For most empires this is not needed after a decade or so of rule, so a few of the examples given wouldn't count in my mind.
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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 11:01
Originally posted by the Bulgarian

Originally posted by kotumeyil

Ottoman occupation in Balkans lasted about 500 years...

The term "occupation" is inapropriate here.

In fact you're right. I used it like this since it was used in this way before... 

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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 16:20
Originally posted by Genghis

I think occupation here implies that a military presence was needed to maintain control over those areas.  For most empires this is not needed after a decade or so of rule, so a few of the examples given wouldn't count in my mind.


Well I would probably nominate Sparta with her rule over Messenia. Her entire national body transformed into an army to keep the helots under control, this being the state of affairs for many hundreds of years.
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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 07:54
I agree with Constantine XI, the spartan ocupation of Messenia.
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